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Somewhere in this thread the mig vs. tig question cam up, this is a bit of topic, but there is a variation of the tig process call high amp tig (used for tig root passes), and although i am not to familar with that particular process, i do know (watched a guy put a root in with it too) that you can put roots in dang near as quick, if not quicker than mig, but thats a whole nurther thread (jasonmt, wasn't it ludwigs in calgary that developed it?)

Also there's the whole debate of a good looking weld means a good weld and there's no way to tell otherwise, well not true. If you are watching when putting the weld down (example, downhand mig or stick, mig the puddle gets ahead of the electrode, or slag gets trapped ahead of the electrode when doing stick resulting in slag inclusions among other things, and the mid issues results in a big lack of fusion/cold lapping-which is something that is difficult to pick up on x-ray) you can learn and see what happens when some issues arise.

A good example of this just happened with a buddy of mine doing a welding procedure, it was with the metalcore process (spray transfer, high depostion rates) and welded in the flat, but the entire weld failed do to improper techique resulting in lack of fusion along the entire plate, but the weld looked really good and even passed x-ray but failed every other test, tensile, guided bend, and charpy testing.


I think it would be very interesting for some of the professionals in this post who are qualified inspectors and weld process/procedure writers to write a "non legally binding purely hypothetical to cover their asses" weld procedure and inspection process for a typical roll cage welded joint connection. this wouldn't be for the purpose of proving anyone wrong, but more to illustrate what would be deemed "sufficient" if this were in an industry that required such documentation and inspection. based on a sound structural design from the engineers, the process and inspection would dictate what is good or good enough, and what is bad...
That is not a bad idea, however i am not sure if a cage or something similar would fall under the structure classification or if there is a vehicle code it would fall under, but the structural code seems the most reasonable, however i personally do not deal the aws code for structural welding, but i do deal with the csa codes (47.1/w59), and i could write something up but i don't have access to the proper machine (only a miller arc machine and a little 110 hobart mig set up on self shielding flux core wire).
 

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OG13 King
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remember I always say, just cause you own a welder, don't make you one;)
First of all, I read the four page instruction manual...twice!!

Second, I got a B+ in metal shop back in high school. The teacher said he had never seen welds that look quite like mine before :confused:

Third, well, there is no third thing accept that my mom likes the way my welds look and at the end of the day, that's all that really matters.

BTW SeaBass, $100 is too much for a welding certificate. I don't need to be that well certified. What can I get for 25 bucks?

Hey Mr Engloid, what do you think about 7018? I've always heard it's the best welding rod.
 

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7018:depends on the application.
Me thinks ya might want to recalibrate your sarcasm meter, its reading a little off.

What year of engineering school do they reach up your ass, grab your sense of humor by the neck and rip it out?:flipoff2:
 

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First of all, I read the four page instruction manual...twice!!

Second, I got a B+ in metal shop back in high school. The teacher said he had never seen welds that look quite like mine before :confused:

Third, well, there is no third thing accept that my mom likes the way my welds look and at the end of the day, that's all that really matters.

BTW SeaBass, $100 is too much for a welding certificate. I don't need to be that well certified. What can I get for 25 bucks?

Hey Mr Engloid, what do you think about 7018? I've always heard it's the best welding rod.

a swift, yet painfull kick in the nuts:flipoff2:
 

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I see we have a true professional in our midst "MR. Engloid" and we are going to chase him off cause he is right. Rather than ask questions and learn from the man. Some will chase him off cause he makes us look like the hacks we are!:shaking: Pride and ignorance!:shaking:

Mr. Engloid, please teach us some basic rules, probably newby stuff to you but maybe we could all learn something. Then when everyone understands those points, the questions could get more intricate, similar to an online college course but more interactive. I would even be willing to pay if it made it more worthwhile to you?

You have a way with words where I believe you could teach some of us in days what it might take months/years to learn in a local college. Please help us.......and if you won't, then please help me.:) I personaly would like to better myself. I understand if you don't have the time, or desire.

Thanx in advance,
Easy Rick.
 

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I've heard you can weld anything with 7018! That is, as long as you can see what you're doing.
:D
Thats it right there. Alot of people weld but they really dont understand wtf they are seeing.

I remember people used to say mig is idiot proof. Anyone can do it. It is easy to mig weld. Pretty much anyone can do a good lookin tack tack tack. Now what really makes me laugh is some of the pics posted earlier. It's obvious that some people cant even do the tack tack tack and others are defending them.

:laughing:
 

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Forgive them Eng for they know not of what they even speak.

you got a better chance of teaching welding on the site the hairdresser & his girlfriend run!
 

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I can see this thread is going to shit really fast, when it could be the best thread on this site..I don't think this guy is saying that nobody knows what there doing, but there is more to a weld than what we know.. If he is willing to share his knowledge to help us than I think we should at least give him some credit for what he says.. Weather its something we want to hear or not..
 

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Me thinks ya might want to recalibrate your sarcasm meter, its reading a little off.

What year of engineering school do they reach up your ass, grab your sense of humor by the neck and rip it out?:flipoff2:

naaaaaaaa, i think i just need to turn the porn off when posting so i can give more attention to whats at hand :flipoff2:
 

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First, for those saying they have never seen a weld that broke - OPEN YOUR EYES and you will see.

Example: Long arm


Now you tell me this is no catastrophic failure that can lead to serious injuries.

Would you trust these welds? Not me.


Some of you totally missed it. The tac-tac-tac method may get the job done, it may also hold up, sure. Is there a way to do it better? For sure.

A company that produces parts and equipment customers depend their life on should always try to give their customers the best and safest thing possible. Period.

There is no doubt that a continuous weld is better than a tacked weld even if you have to stop a few times, no matter how high the percentage of overlap on the tacks is.

So why go for something weaker?

Just my .02
 

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As a full time Tig welder here in Australia, I've seen Engloids work and critiques posted on most of the respected welding forums on the web. I have to say. He is the welder we should aspire to be.
We specialise in Tig welding of Chrome/Moly 4130, Aluminium and Stainless Steel in the motorsport industry here in Australia and we are improving constantly but it's info like that of Engloid's that spurs me on to do better all the time.
My aluminium welding is pretty good now, I've just got to get the weld consistency on the steel and stainless up a notch or two.
Regards Andrew.
 

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From "Tack-Tack-Tack v. Continuous" to "Purist v. Practical," what a strange path it's been. I revisited this thread having just finished fabbing a trailer for my build. I find myself agreeing with both sides, as I wanted every weld to be perfect and yet had many compromises and second rate (e.g. Overhead) welds. While not certified in anything, I did the CC night school class that taught stick as a prelude to MIG/TIG. (The post that said the purpose of class to to teach you to learn versus teaching you to weld was dead on. Out of 42 classroom hours, only 7 were in class and the rest were at the bench. Since leaving the class, I've read a number of books from the Lincoln Foundation library and have practiced, practiced, practiced...)

In the "Purist v. Practical" wars, I looked at commercial trailers and have little doubt that they are safe, but there were also a number of half-assed welds and plenty of shortcuts to make a price point. They did what they had to do to be commercially viable, but I wanted something better. Would I be able to make a living selling the trailer I built at those prices? Hell no!

Bottom line, I think both Engloid and Toby are right and I'm glad they contributed to the thread. Am I a welder? No, but I'm learnin'

Thanks for the tech.
 

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First, for those saying they have never seen a weld that broke - OPEN YOUR EYES and you will see.

Example: Long arm


Now you tell me this is no catastrophic failure that can lead to serious injuries.

Would you trust these welds? Not me.


Some of you totally missed it. The tac-tac-tac method may get the job done, it may also hold up, sure. Is there a way to do it better? For sure.

A company that produces parts and equipment customers depend their life on should always try to give their customers the best and safest thing possible. Period.

There is no doubt that a continuous weld is better than a tacked weld even if you have to stop a few times, no matter how high the percentage of overlap on the tacks is.

So why go for something weaker?

Just my .02

It seems to me that on the X, the weld looks cold. It isn't really even burnt in. I think he must have waited for the tack to cool before he moved on. When I perform this method, I don't give the weld a chance to cool. I strike it again instantly. Could have had his welder running to cool also.

We make road planners where I work. They are made mostly of 1/2 and 3/8 plate. On the housing themshelves they have ears that hold the wheels which hold the weight of the skidsteer and the machine itself. On the insides of the ears I do this type of welding. I have never had a machine come back due to a broken weld. Granted we do use 3 Phase welders. :D
 

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pimping sparks&smoke
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The one thing that remains consistent is the absolute unwillingness of some to realize that the tack welding method shown in this thread is NOT acceptable no matter what. No "REAL WORLD" entity endorses such a practice, and if you are a business (!PSC!) who practices this you had better hope you never need defending in court.
The sad thing is you have very knowledgeable people like JasonMT, and now Engloid who tell the true facts, yet the defenders(of the tack method) refuse to take that information to try to find out what is actually true for themselves. Instead they make the smart folks who know argue till they're blue.
I only decided to post to show my support for the proper way.There is no place for the tack method anywhere anytime.....it's just wrong plain & simple.
Richard

PS- If you are a reader who still thinks the tack way is good please read over & over Engloids very first post. It was brilliantly written, and tells you without a doubt as to why this method sucks.
 

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pimping sparks&smoke
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Bottom line, I think both Engloid and Toby are right and I'm glad they contributed to the thread. Am I a welder? No, but I'm learnin'

Thanks for the tech.
NO they are both NOT RIGHT. What don't you understand??? Go search out the truth for yourself. It's already here but apparently you don't see it. Unfortunately you are not alone(deer in headlights!).
Richard
 

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Not a Wenzelite
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The welds on the coped tubes might be OK. They're not tack-tack-tacked, and look more like a continuous bead where a puddle was maintained. It would be nice to see it cut in half to get a better idea of penetration, though!!!

I'm guessing the person who did the dimpled gusset plates was concerned about burn-through. They would have benefitted from lower heat, lower wire speed, but a continuous weld.
 

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Somewhere in this thread the mig vs. tig question cam up, this is a bit of topic, but there is a variation of the tig process call high amp tig (used for tig root passes), and although i am not to familar with that particular process, i do know (watched a guy put a root in with it too) that you can put roots in dang near as quick, if not quicker than mig, but thats a whole nurther thread (jasonmt, wasn't it ludwigs in calgary that developed it?)
I have never heard of that, but it sounds to me that they turned up the amperage and welded faster…and wanted to give it a fancy name to sound special.

The root pass of mine pictured above was done at 231 amps. I’d call that high amperage tig. The root pass probably took bout a 1 min, 15sec…tops.

Hey Mr Engloid, what do you think about 7018? I've always heard it's the best welding rod.
I like them, for carbon steel welding. They are the most popular low hydrogen rod in most industries. 6010’s are popular for root passes.

I see we have a true professional in our midst "MR. Engloid" and we are going to chase him off cause he is right. Rather than ask questions and learn from the man. Some will chase him off cause he makes us look like the hacks we are!:shaking: Pride and ignorance!:shaking:
I’m not that easily scared off…or swayed from my beliefs, as you can probably see.
Mr. Engloid, please teach us some basic rules, probably newby stuff to you but maybe we could all learn something. Then when everyone understands those points, the questions could get more intricate, similar to an online college course but more interactive. I would even be willing to pay if it made it more worthwhile to you?
The best thing you can do is have a camera and take pics of your work…and we can go from there.
I remember people used to say mig is idiot proof. Anyone can do it. It is easy to mig weld.
For me, TIG is easier…cause of the amount of control you have. MIG is typically done on things that are not as important as others…like dumpsters, truck bed tool boxes, etc. Therefore, they don’t pay much for the welders that do it.
Forgive them Eng for they know not of what they even speak.

you got a better chance of teaching welding on the site the hairdresser & his girlfriend run!
Hello, Franz. Good to see you. I’ll forgive the guys….after they buy me a dinner… ever met a welder that wouldn’t work for food???!!! Haha!
Mr. Engloid, would we be out of line to ask what you charge for an hourly rate?
I don’t charge as much as I probably should, but I don’t really do much side work. I prefer to punch a clock, work 40hrs and go home. When at home, or on side jobs, I am more likely to do a friend a free favor than take in a job from somebody for $25/hr. I figure that if I work overtime at my regular job, I’d take in more than that…and it’s easier than having somebody bring me dirty, nasty stuff that doesn’t fit, grinding for an hour to make a 15 minute weld. I’ve gotten to where I tell people that my rate doubles for time spent grinding, cleaning, or making things fit right. Honestly though, I don’t do much side work…I’m too picky and most people that want stuff done won’t pay shit for it, so I’d rather not lower my standards (and reputation) to make a few bucks.

The welds on the coped tubes might be OK. They're not tack-tack-tacked, and look more like a continuous bead where a puddle was maintained.
The dimples on the middle of every spot is an indicator that it was done by pumping the trigger.
 
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