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tack tack tack

112K views 495 replies 116 participants last post by  Slowerthanu 
#1 ·
Not to add fuel to the fire, but I was sifting through my old episodes of Extreme4x4 today and came across a clip. It is jesse welding and she is explaining the differences between mig and tig. Now her Tig welds look like mig welds and her mig welds are all tack tack tack.

Why does she do things backwards?
 
#14 ·
TeenyCAR said:
You have a reputation for knowing what you are talking about so in this case, you might not want to give people a false impression that you know what you are talking about on this particular topic.
Even you yourself have said you realize that the stop/start method should only be used on sheetmetal. I would never use this for anything structural that's for sure...the whole point of a tack weld is for ease of breaking/removal.
 
#16 ·
braxton357 said:
Even you yourself have said you realize that the stop/start method should only be used on sheetmetal. I would never use this for anything structural that's for sure...the whole point of a tack weld is for ease of breaking/removal.
Acutally if you go back and read through you note that while I did use this method on all the 16-14 guage plate, I also used it on materials up to 3/16" thick and consider it appropriate. Even a professional industrial welder chimed in to say that he uses this method for 3/8" thick material. The point of a tack is to hold something in place. You saw the amature demonstration of a tack tack tack weld on 1/8" thick material, so you tell me how easy it was to break off.
:shaking:
 
#17 ·
the problem is people dont understand what that style is doing. If you have your welder set up to weld .120 wall tubing continuous, and you try to weld like this, it will be crap. I am not as good a welder as toby, dont claim to be. But I have watched a ton of his welding, and welded a ton of my own stuff. There are a lot of ways to weld like this wrong. You can keep the heat at the same setting, you can just pull the trigger for a very short duration, and you can just keep it pointed in one place each time you pull the trigger. If you weld like that, you will have a problem.

If on the other hand, you turn the heat up, you can hold the trigger down for right arround a second, and during that second you can start on one piece, move back toward the previous stich, and then forward about 3/8-1/2" at a time. Untill you have seen it, or praticed a lot, you just wont understand. By doing it this way you are heating and melting both base metal, pulling them into the previous stich, and it is plenty hot to get as much or more penetration that most welds dont by people who run a continuous bead.
 
#18 ·
TeenyCAR said:
You have a reputation for knowing what you are talking about so in this case, you might not want to give people a false impression that you know what you are talking about on this particular topic.
That's funny right there. I'll be the first to admit my practical skill/experience is severly lacking. But that doesn't mean I don't understand the topic. In fact, the ironic thing is, quite the opposite is true. There are many who "seem" to be able to make a pretty bead that draws oohs and ahhs from the "appearance is everyhting" crowd but that in fact, especially if they advocate this continuos start and stop method in a structural weld, it is they that are demonstarting a fundamental lack of understanding of the process and metallurgy involved.

It seems a lot of people think a MIG welder is some sort of hot glue gun for metal :eek:

Oh well
 
#19 ·
There's a difference between 'tack tack tack' and 'tack buzzzzzz stop tack buzzzzzzzz stop tack buzzzzzz stop'. And the difference is if your part falls off or not, and there's a difference from a continuous weld and both the above mentioned... if you are going to do tack tack tack for looks it will fail if you practice tack buzzzzzzz tack buzzzzzzzz you will get a nice looking weld and in my opinion (after testing) almost as strong as continuous. In fact when I tested continuous vs. tack/buz/stop I ripped the steel in every test never once did i rip or crack the welds. (continuous and tack buzz).

Like mentioned previously you have to run higher heat and 'know' the puddle. It's not as simple as tack tack tack. And I know I was the first to jump on TeenyCar and Toby for the tack tack but after doing my own testing and ripping steel not welds I find it a worthy method for up to 3/16". And also don't believe it shoudl be called tack tack tack it needs some other name because it is DEF not the same, it's really short puddle welding.. hrmm..

I'll start a new thread and post up a bunch o-test. (TennyCar already did this too for those interested.)
 
#20 ·
Todd W said:
Like mentioned previously you have to run higher heat and 'know' the puddle. It's not as simple as tack tack tack. And I know I was the first to jump on TeenyCar and Toby for the tack tack but after doing my own testing and ripping steel not welds I find it a worthy method for up to 3/16". And also don't believe it shoudl be called tack tack tack it needs some other name because it is DEF not the same, it's really short puddle welding.. hrmm..

I'll start a new thread and post up a bunch o-test. (TennyCar already did this too for those interested.)

Watch the video. The thread is about the "tack tack tack" method. And no matter how you argue it or how many of your dimpled gussets have held using it--a series of cold welds isn't as strong as the correct continuous weld. If you want it to look pretty and still have strength there are (easy) ways to get the stack of dimes look without doing stop/start. The only reason I can ever see the need to use the tack method and the only reason I ever use it for is when mig welding thin sheetmetal that I don't want to burn through or warp.
 
#21 ·
Brad said:
Well he did praise Toby's welding when posted in the thread critisizin billavistas welding and said he wished he could weld like that..............wonder if he knows :laughing:

Funny how every time this comes up Brad jumps in and throws in a little jab at me. Kinda makes me raugh, not too long ago he was asking me about a job. :shaking:

Anyone that has welded a lot of tube knows that on most full circle tube welds there are at least 2-3 stop and starts to get the welder and your hand all the way around the tube. Especially when dealing with a full tube chassis, there are pleanty of welds where you are forced to do more like 5 stop and starts.
So tell me what's better, running the welder cold enough for a continous weld and doing several cold stop and starts, or running the welder hot as shit and controlling the heat with the duty cycle you give it? If you tried to do a coutinous weld with my welder set where I weld it would burn straight through .120 wall tube within a inch!

Todd makes a great point, saying "tac-tac" does not properly explain it. Doing a bunch of tac welds on top of another is wrong, but doing a series of very hot short welds IMO is the best way to weld tube with a MIG. That being said I really hope you all don't think I weld the way I do because I can't run a continous bead.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not trying to teach welding, and I am not saying this meathod is correct for everyone. I'm not even tryn to say I am a good welder but I have been welding nearly every day for over 22 years and have NEVER had a failure directly from a weld! NEVER! (before you all bring up the Chevy I posted a while back, that was not caused by the weld failing!)
 
#23 ·
braxton357 said:
Watch the video. The thread is about the "tack tack tack" method. And no matter how you argue it or how many of your dimpled gussets have held using it--a series of cold welds isn't as strong as the correct continuous weld. If you want it to look pretty and still have strength there are (easy) ways to get the stack of dimes look without doing stop/start. The only reason I can ever see the need to use the tack method and the only reason I ever use it for is when mig welding thin sheetmetal that I don't want to burn through or warp.
Yes, video was tack-tack-tack aka NOT good.

Just because all coffee is black doesn't mean they all taste the same... the same holds true for the appeared MIG tack-tack-tack- welds - some may be shitty while others may be strong as hell. I've learned not to judge by a look, hell an ugly continuous weld may be stronger than a pretty tack tack tack or vice versa...

I think in the end people need to remember a LOT more goes into a weld than it's look... remember heat, welder speed, operator speed, operator technique, shielding gass and MORE come into play with a welds strenght.
 
#120 ·
Just because all coffee is black doesn't mean they all taste the same... the same holds true for the appeared MIG tack-tack-tack- welds -
When the spots are as far apart as shown in the first pic, there is absolutely no chance that it will be as strong as a continuous weld.
I think in the end people need to remember a LOT more goes into a weld than it's look... remember heat, welder speed, operator speed, operator technique, shielding gass and MORE come into play with a welds strenght.
Right...and when only the technique is off, it's a HUGE factor in making a good weld. How many of you have walked up to a welding machine and fired it up right after a highly skilled pro, to find that you couldn't weld nearly as good as they did (with all the same other variables)? It's technique that's the only difference, but it is huge.
 
#24 · (Edited)
I just took a look at the vid. posted and it appears as though she is allowing the quick "tack" to nearly cool to grey before hitting the next one which is understandably weaker than putting more time into the "tack" and then placing the next one while the previous is still glowing red. What some of you don't seem to get is that there are good ways and bad ways of performing this style of welding just as there are good and bad ways of performing other styles of welding. I'm guessing this is BillaVista's version of a continuous weld. Is continuous welding strong, it can be but I sure don't think this is. Just because you used a particular style doesn't mean it is automatically strong or weak. The welding process is only as good as the guy/girl holding the trigger.
 
#25 · (Edited)
aww damn. Not thats not really fair. The best of one style attacking one of the [cough] "worst" [/cough] of another style. I've only been welding for a few months on my just and this is what I came up with. Sorry if its a shitty pic this is the best I have.



EDIT: that is a horrible pic I'll look for something clearer.
 
#26 ·
TeenyCAR said:
I just took a look at the vid. posted and it appears as though she is allowing the quick "tack" to nearly cool to grey before hitting the next one which is understandably weaker than putting more time into the "tack" and then placing the next one while the previous is still glowing red. What some of you don't seem to get is that there are good ways and bad ways of performing this style of welding just as there are good and bad ways of performing other styles of welding. I'm guessing this is BillaVista's version of a continuous weld. Is continuous welding strong, it can be but I sure don't think this is. Just because you used a particular style doesn't mean it is automatically strong or weak. The welding process is only as good as the guy/girl holding the trigger.
yep - that looks tacked into place...
 
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