Pirate 4x4 banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
1. I have not found confirmation on here or Pavement Sucks that anyone has tapped a Borgeson steering box for hydro-assist. Are there any updates on this? Can someone identify on a picture where to tap the box? I have one ordered and I am considering tapping it prior to installing it on the truck in case the box doesn't have enough power / leverage to turn a locked front.

2. In the process of upgrading the steering, I am modding a remanned pump following the West Texas Off-road method. I recently read an alternate version of modding the pump that showed enlarging specific side holes in the pressure piston in addition to the main fitting orifice, but I cannot find the page on TDR, PS, or Pirate. Any help????

3. There is a ton of good information on PS fluid reservoirs on Pirate. Does anyone have a picture of how / where they mounted a PS fluid reservoir in a second generation engine compartment?


The truck is a 2001 quad cab shortbed diesel with a welded front. Intended tires are 37x12.50. Truck serves as daily driver, work, and wheeler.

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,336 Posts
Of all the Borg boxes I have sold, nobody has been brave enough to tap one yet. I tried to get some info about it from my sales rep at Borgeson but of course they aren't real keen on the idea.

I'll say this though - I'm running 37x13.50 Toyo MTs under my V10 and the steering box has no problems turning those tires while parked and running at an idle. It's a very powerful steering box. An upgraded pump will improve that considerably. I think you would be fine without hydro assist, but I understand why you would want to go ahead and tap it while it's not under the truck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
How does that welded front treat you as a daily driver?
Been good for about 5 years. It contributed to a ruined 241 transfer case since it spins the shaft all the time. I upgraded to a 271 that is designed for that and have had no issues. I still have a the CAD, so it is very bearable in 2wd. Going into 4wd with snow on pavement has proven to be an almost unconquerable challenge on the steering equipment.

I have made at least on 500 mile trip and used the truck to work with at about 100-miles a day for the first three years after I welded it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Of all the Borg boxes I have sold, nobody has been brave enough to tap one yet. I tried to get some info about it from my sales rep at Borgeson but of course they aren't real keen on the idea.

I'll say this though - I'm running 37x13.50 Toyo MTs under my V10 and the steering box has no problems turning those tires while parked and running at an idle. It's a very powerful steering box. An upgraded pump will improve that considerably. I think you would be fine without hydro assist, but I understand why you would want to go ahead and tap it while it's not under the truck.
This helps with the confidence in the box and was the impression that lead me to purchase the box. I already have all of the materials for hydro-assist as I was planning on rebuilding the current box before deciding on the Borgeson.

It would sure be great to get some inside schematics of the box.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Nissan Delphi Box

I found a bit of information on the Nissan forum that lead to this drill and tap link. What is the likelihood of this same pattern working on the Delphi / Borgeson Dodge box? It also doesn't look too challenging to pull this box apart in comparison to the mystery balls of the saginaw boxes.

Delphi Tap Link

I got the box in today and it looks very similar. Does anyone know what the Borgeson box was originally used on?

In follow-up for one of my previous questions, I studied the pump pressure port fluid path and concluded that drilling the side orifice on the main fitting is the proper hole to drill. I also was able to taper the exit side of the main fitting orifice which should drastically reduce the pressure loss and momentum of the fluid traveling through the orifice. This should reduce turbulence and likely some heat while increasing flow to the gearbox.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,336 Posts
The Borgeson 2nd gen box is a Delphi 600.

And just as a side bar, the 3rd gen box that Borgeson makes is a Delphi 680.

Not sure what they were used in originally but hope that helps. I'm anxious to see if you get this thing tapped.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I finally had a moment and took the box apart tonight. It is very similar to the box listed above, except that it is oriented to be mounted inside the frame rails.

I ran into an issue with getting the main shaft out of the housing and nicked the seals pretty badly. I ended up cutting them at that point to remove the shaft. They install with a bevel, but there is a very sharp ridge when removing the shaft. I person should be able to remove the shaft without much grief is he pays attention.

Off to tap.
 

Attachments

·
Embrace the Suck
Joined
·
2,095 Posts
progress??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Progress??? Yes.

I found a kit with the seals locally. It is basically a mid-90's multifit Chevrolet application. Kit number 8716 listed as such with most common parts houses. It had a lot of the same seals, but it does not look to be a compete rebuild kit for this Borgeson Box.

As a few words of caution about disassembly of the box, try to remove the main shaft of the pump as an entire unit. There are 22 ball bearings that locate the helical shaft into the piston gear. Once the snap ring is removed, the entire unit can be removed as one piece by drifting it out through the hole with the pitman arm shaft. Once out, I would recommend taping on zip-tying these two parts together.


The box goes back together quite easily. The bolt heads are all 11/16". The torque specs for the main shaft head bolts are ~ 55 ft-lbs. and the rotational shaft housing bolts are ~35 ft-lbs. Remember to lubricate all of the parts and seals with the fluid of choice during reassembly. I chose Amsoil ATF since it was available locally and is recommended for power steering on the back of the bottle. I was looking for Amsoil Hydraulic fluid to not much avail.

Here are the picture of the tap locations. I used 3/16" NPT fittings and tapped accordingly. There are only a few available flat spots on the box, so I put the taps in the locations I thought were ideal. If I had to do it again, I would move the front tap up a bit as it is currently in line with the piston main shaft piston. There is no interference, but you can see that it may not be in the ideal location. I decided to place it low for frame clearance on the truck. The yellow dot indicates my preferred location.









After slowly drilling and tapping, I took a flap wheel to the holes to ensure a flat mating surface on the box. I cleaned it all up with brake cleaner and reassembled, using plenty of fluid. I have the port plugged with 3/16" plugs for the time being. I really want to see what the Borgeson box can do.

Here is how the truck sits waiting reassembly. I've got the cross-over steering shaft built and in mock-up position to fit the steering shaft when I get the box and pitman arm in place. I've also got the cooler mounted and the modified pump in place. I decided to replace all of the hoses while I was at it.

 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Awesome write up. Just what I need...I think. I'm trying to tap a box on a 2002 chevy z71, do you have any idea if I have the same box? The box says Delphi, but is it a 600?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,336 Posts
Bringing this one back from the grave on Halloween, to show another Borgeson box tapped for hydro.



Hope this helps some people out there who either want to buy one already done, or see where to tap the box themselves.
 

·
Embrace the Suck
Joined
·
2,095 Posts
cool DJ...something for me to consider in the future!

On a side note, NPKenny, anything other than driveshaft modifications needed to swap a 271 into a 2nd gen? Curious as there is one local with a fixed rear flange for sale on Craigslist and I'd like to put it in the tow rig as a SYE kit essentially...
 

·
Embrace the Suck
Joined
·
2,095 Posts
so how did this turn out? Any negatives?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
853 Posts
Here are some pics of the hydro-assist i just finished. Then I took it on a two week rock crawling trip all over St. George, Salt Lake Ut, then back down to Lake Havasu with the final drive back here to San Diego. No issues and running 37 inch toyo's on Raceline beadlocks. Here are some pics.
 

Attachments

·
E-Locker or Bust!
Joined
·
4,278 Posts
Ram-on-rocks: Do you have any better pictures of where toy tapped the box? Most people tap the front and side, is why I ask.

EDIT: Never mind that's not a Borg box I just realized. Carry on. I'll have my box drilled and tapped in the next few weeks here, or so... so I can add to this thread.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top