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This is written presumably from Ryan Horsley's blog http://redstradingpost.blogspot.com/ (store site - www.redstradingpost.com)

http://www.redpills.org/?p=294

The BATFE is creating a firearms ownership registry; this is blatantly illegal!
Posted by Gary Shumway under Firearms , Bureaucrats , Government , U.S. Congress , Taxes - Misused , We The People , BATFE

If the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) is not trying to create an electronically accessible database which contains all the firearms sold to citizens in the U.S. (past and future), then my some thirty years in the information technology field has taught me nothing. Oh, did I mention that such a BATFE database is illegal? And it is the first step towards a firearms registry and subsequent confiscation of same by your friendly government agents.

Facts:

1. We know by BATFE’s own admission that the number of Federal Firearms Licenses (FFL), which is required to sell firearms in the U.S., has decreased 79 percent since 1994. This decline is due to increases in FFL fees, more stringent federal regulations, increased monitoring by the BATFE, and the magnitude of the fines and penalties for even the smallest ‘error’ (where ’error’ is defined by the BATFE! Read re: Red’s Trading Post current problems with the BATFE, which by-the-way, is supposed to be an agency of the people!)

2. To buy a gun you have to fill out a form 4473 that includes your name, address, demographics such as sex, height, weight, date of birth, birthplace, etc. In addition you must answer a number of questions appropriately. After the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is called and confirms that you are not on the ‘bad guys’ list, the 4473 form is retained and filed by the dealer. These forms are periodically reviewed by BATFE personnel.

3. In addition to the 4473, the FFL must also maintain a log of all firearms that they have acquired and sold, AKA an Acquisition and Disposition Book (A&D Book). The A&D Book must contain information including a description of the firearm, the name and address of the person from whom the firearm was acquired and when sold, the name and address of the purchaser and date the gun was sold. BTW, according to Title 18 U.S.C. § 923(g), an FFL must submit a “Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers,” to the ATF if an individual purchases more than one handgun within a period of five consecutive business days. Interesting.

4. When a FFL is revoked or the gun dealer has had enough of BATFE’s bureaucratic BS, then according to 27 CFR 478.127, the records must be surrendered to the BATF. That is:

The records consist of the licensee’s bound acquisition/disposition (A/D) records, ATF Forms 4473, ATF Forms 3310.4 (Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers), ATF Forms 3310.11 (Federal Firearms Licensee Theft/Loss Report), records of transactions in semiautomatic assault weapons, records of importation (ATF Forms 6 and 6A), and law enforcement certification letters. If the licensee was granted a variance to use a computerized record-keeping system, the licensee is required to provide a complete printout of the entire A/D records.

5. OK, now, pay attention. Here’s one critical piece. According to Ryan Horsley, Manager of Red’s Trading Post who has been going around and around with the BATFE, “the ATF has been making a strong push to get all of the dealers to get a computerized system…”, in addition to filing the paper Form 4473. Apparently the BATFE is also disallowing certain computerized systems, even those which were previously allowed. No doubt this is an effort by BATFE to ensure all dealers are on a system from which they can electronically download.

6. And here comes the coup de grâce. According to Ryan, the BATFE just announced that they have updated their portable systems (read laptops) that they take into guns shops when they do audits (remember #5 above?) Specifically:

The Justice Department’s BATFE has announced plans to field a nationwide wireless broadband telecommunications and Web portal. The agency said in a procurement notice issued last week that it seeks to award a contract by November for a wireless system based on technology from iPass.

In a notice on the Fed-BizOpps government acquisition system, the agency said it plans to solicit proposals for the system around Aug. 7. ATF seeks to purchase a system that would support thousands of agency employees.

ATF stated its requirements for the planned system: “The Web portal shall support law enforcement activities, a collaborative work environment, remote access to databases and software, surveillance and streaming video applications over an integrated wireless infrastructure encompassing a broad spectrum of wireless devices and a secure e-mail system using iPass Mobile Systems software and products.”

A Federal firearms licensee (FFL) who has an approved variance to use a computerized acquisition and disposition record may periodically download the required records to portable data storage devices instead of printing out such records, even if the original variance did not include this provision.

There you have it. It couldn’t be clearer. With all the paper 4473 forms entered from FFLs going out of business or entry by BATFE during inspections, with the BATFE “encouraging” (I bet it will become mandatory) existing FFLs to create electronic databases of at least the 4473s and A&D Books, with the BATFE having the ability to download existing databases, and with the remote access to databases, surveillance, support of law enforcement activities the loop is closed…around our necks.

Sure, write me off as a conspiracy theorist - at your own peril. My assertion is also supported by John Rabb, in a piece he wrote in Guns & Ammo entitled, “By Any Other Acronym“. It is a good article, in which he sums up by saying:

For some inexplicable reason, Congressional gun supporters have focused their attention on reforming the NICS process. But there is no credible information that NICS has been systematically used to record and store information on gun purchasers. Congress should instead focus on the Form 4473 database.

The BATFE does not deny that the Form 4473 database exists, nor is it apologetic about it. The BATFE firmly believes that the Form 4473 database makes a significant contribution to preventing and solving gun crimes. But if only 8 percent of gun criminals obtain their firearms from gun dealers, is there sufficient justification to maintain an Orwellian repository of personal information on millions of law-abiding gun buyers?

The BATFE must be stopped. Contact your Senators and Representatives regarding this egregious overstepping of BATFE’s mandate. You have been warned. Ignore at the peril of your Constitutionally guaranteed freedom.

To redpills.org home page.
The image used in this post was obtained from HERE and is basically unaltered. This article is copyright © 2007, by Gary Shumway. Permission is hereby granted to reproduce and distribute it electronically and in print, other than as part of a book and provided that mention of the author’s web site www.redpills.org is included. (Email notification is requested.) All other rights reserved. Gary Shumway is the author of Winging Through America and SCUBA Scoop.
 

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Ok so I'll stand here and stomp my foot to make sure they know I'm angry...

Tell me how we can stop it and I'll help...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ok so I'll stand here and stomp my foot to make sure they know I'm angry...

Tell me how we can stop it and I'll help...
I think that would violate the TOS here. :laughing:

Write your reps or in your case get new ones. Make MD a better place for me to move back to in a few years. :flipoff2: Seriously though, write your reps often to voice your opposition to this cockamamey BS. Gun control has been a big push for the last 6 months and it's only going to get worse.
 

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Very interesting.

As an IT consultant supporting the Fed (DoD, IRS, DHS, FBI, etc) I had not seen an RFP, Req, etc for this system yet. If the RFP truely exists it will be public knowledge and easy enough to find a link.

I wonder exactly what they mean by this "nationwide wireless broadband telecommunications and Web portal"?
A true wireless broad band network is not feasable, cost wise and technology wise. I wonder if they mean a cellular based network?

Hmmm maybe time to rebuild the garage and install copper mesh in the walls. Build one huge faraday cage :)
 

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I think that would violate the TOS here. :laughing:

Write your reps or in your case get new ones. Make MD a better place for me to move back to in a few years. :flipoff2: Seriously though, write your reps often to voice your opposition to this cockamamey BS. Gun control has been a big push for the last 6 months and it's only going to get worse.
I'll tell you how Maryland will be a better place for you to move back to.... Move to PA or VA :flipoff2:

Maryland is really Commifornia East... I'm just waiting to graduate college and my ass is making a run for it...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'll tell you how Maryland will be a better place for you to move back to.... Move to PA or VA :flipoff2:

Maryland is really Commifornia East... I'm just waiting to graduate college and my ass is making a run for it...
Fawk PA and I'm already in VA. Yes MD's gunlaws in particular suck, but it's home. In fact my family has been there since the 1680's and for whatever reason I have the desire to go home. I can at least say I voted for Ehrlich via mail when I was on Active Duty. I had hoped he'd be able to hang on.

AlohaRover,

Better add some lead sheet to that copper mesh. :D
 

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Dude. WTF. When are they just going to confiscate all or our shit? It's hard enough to be in the gun business as it is...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
All in good time, then we'll be a perfectly civilized society where everyone gets along and hugs each other. Everyone smiles, no one is unhappy and life if perfectly happy ever after.







Ugh, I feel like puking. Keep an eye on the 08 elections they are what is driving some of this GC now. It will only get worse in the future.
 

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Maybe it's time the American gun-owning public starts making receivers in their basements, and buys all other parts from gun shops. Then we could buy and sell firearms without 4473's, and there'd be no transactions for the BATFE to keep records of.
 

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Maybe it's time the American gun-owning public starts making receivers in their basements, and buys all other parts from gun shops. Then we could buy and sell firearms without 4473's, and there'd be no transactions for the BATFE to keep records of.
Can't legally sell a home made...
 

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Can't legally sell a home made...
Sure you can, as long as you put a serial number on it, keep a record of it, and you aren't engaged in the business of making and/or selling firearms without an FFL.
 

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Aloharover, a question for you. I had the understanding that the FFL holder selling a firearm is or was only required to keep the 4473 on file for seven years and it was against the law for any federal or state agency to confiscate the files.
 

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I hope all this ATF shit hits the fan and then falls on the floor! So I can convert all my shit to Ful auto and it will be legal to own.
 

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We need to raise a big "stink" about this shit. It's getting really serious...yet it seems like people hardly know about it. Maybe it's apathy...but seriously...the 2nd Amendment is going to be gone soon.
 

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We need to raise a big "stink" about this shit. It's getting really serious...yet it seems like people hardly know about it. Maybe it's apathy...but seriously...the 2nd Amendment is going to be gone soon.
And when it's gone, my ammo supply will soon follow.
 

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Maybe it's time the American gun-owning public starts making receivers in their basements, and buys all other parts from gun shops. Then we could buy and sell firearms without 4473's, and there'd be no transactions for the BATFE to keep records of.


you mean like this??? :D

I love this pic :laughing:



One of these days I'll have to dig around and find the rest of the pics from that weekend...
 
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