Pirate 4x4 banner
1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,385 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Reading the "which would you pick?" thread got me thinking...

Why does everyone seem to think that buying a builder rig w/ factory straight axle is so much cheaper than buying an IFS rig and doing a SAS?

The way I see it most, if not all, of the major costs of a SAS are things you'll want to be doing to a stock SA anyway:

Gears, locker, crossover steering, long-travel driveshaft, lift springs, long shocks & shock towers, possible brake upgrades, etc.

The only difference I see is you have to buy an axle for a SAS or an IFS steering box for a SA, a difference of probably $100.
I think mounting spring and shackle hangers is about as difficult as mounting up an IFS steering box too (maybe easier).

The only real difference I see is that w/ the SAS you kind of have to do it all at once where as w/ the SA you can do a lot of it in stages...

Anybody agree, disagree?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
I agree totally with you Eric on this one. Why buy something when you will eventually replace it with something better. I'd rather a newer platform to start with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,971 Posts
Your absoutly correct, the price difference between doing a full-on suspension system to a solid axle truck and converting an IFS truck is only a few hundred dollars different.

With an IFS truck you need to buy a front axle, but with an 85 or later you need to buy a wider rear axle.

The newer trucks are much nicer inside if that's important to you. Personally I wanted to spend as little as possable on the body and started with a worn out 1983.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,385 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Originally posted by Chris Geiger:
<STRONG>With an IFS truck you need to buy a front axle, but with an 85 or later you need to buy a wider rear axle.

The newer trucks are much nicer inside if that's important to you. Personally I wanted to spend as little as possable on the body and started with a worn out 1983.</STRONG>
I forgot about the rear axle part, so makes it even closer, maybe even makes the SAS'ed rig a tad cheaper.

I can see starting w/ a cheap '83, but I'm more kind of targeting people holding out for the much-sought-after 84/85's and generally paying a premium for them while passing over later model IFS's in better shape...

I also prefer the nicer newer interiors for my daily commuter/family rig, but that wasn't going to be part of my arguement.
 

·
Super Moderator
'82 Scrambler, '14 Rzr
Joined
·
62,010 Posts
Lets make comparison of items to make the trucks "equal" so to speak... assumes a wash on lift, crossover steering, gears, etc...

S/A truck:

-IFS rear axle - $250
-IFS steering box - $100

IFS truck:

-front axle - $250

I know that is oversimplifying, but it looks to me that at best it is a wash, at worst the S/A truck is MORE expensive to build...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Originally posted by ErikBeeb:
<STRONG>
I can see starting w/ a cheap '83, but I'm more kind of targeting people holding out for the much-sought-after 84/85's and generally paying a premium for them while passing over later model IFS's in better shape...

</STRONG>
You hit the nail on the head here Erik. Down here in the LA area, '84-'85 trucks come at a premium. '86-'89 trucks can be found for some real bargians and they are all over the place in various conditions, mileages and price <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,382 Posts
Solid axle frame is easier to work around for clearance issues though, especially for guys who don't want to run a lot of front lift. It is pretty much as wash though as Eric said. It's almost easier and cheaper to have the IFS box already there, even though the frame needs reinforced.
Since pretty much everyone is onto the 85 Runner's as probably the best builder, here's what I think the hot setup for guys who can build their own in the next few years will be. 86 and up reg cab trucks. Knock out the back window and wall and it's open like a 4runner. Hell, throw in a $75 4runner rollbar from the boneyard and most people couldn't tell the difference. Cage it front to rear and do the SAS. These things are all over, cheap, EFI'd, and use all the same parts. Good wheelbase, wider rear end, IFS box already there, sounds like it's got a good start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,152 Posts
And look at it this way...
If I decided to SAS my truck, it comes with:
V6 engine, V6 rear diff, V6 brakes, full power nicer interior (probably more likely in later models). If someone wanted to bring their pre-86 truck to this level, NOW what other costs are they putting in?

The only real reason to NOT buy an '89+ truck is if you either want to wheel the Con within 2 weeks of purchase, or like the earlier body styles.

Another thought. If a SA guy wants to upgrade springs, the stockers are pretty much junk. If an IFS guy goes SAS, they can sell EVERYTHING they cut off. So, you get back at least $200, that buys the front axle and fab materials.

[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: Pazuzu ]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
545 Posts
Time spent in the garage converting an IFS is lost time you could be beating on your SA.
Time is still money even when your working for your self. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Another thing to consider where I am from is the cost of a frame rebuild or at least some welding on anything 85 and older. For the time and money I spent on a frame rebuild, I hate to think what else I could have done.

Mike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
704 Posts
I agree as a daily driver a newer truck is
the way to go, I've put a lot of money in
my 83, could have bought a newer truck and
did the same and had a much nicer truck, But
its not my daily driver, I have a new full
size for that and I like the old body style.
Any Toyota is better than no Toyota. <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,010 Posts
maybe i'm prejedeous, but i think my 85 exta cab is good to start with for my first truck.
all i really need is a lift lockers and big tires.
if i go for chevy springs rear, stock back ones up front, and some decent tires, i'll still have money left over to build a flatbed or bob the bed.

but, after i get tired of this one and the engine dies down the road. i'd like to do a 90's extra cab truck and turn it into a sas.
<IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Ummm.... did ya'll forget about the cost of labor?

If you can't do it yourself it could mean lots of $$$.

Also, what about the cost of spring mounts and shackle hangers. This could be as high as ~$250-300 if you go with a kit.

Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Originally posted by PJohnson:
<STRONG>Ummm.... did ya'll forget about the cost of labor?

If you can't do it yourself it could mean lots of $$$.

Also, what about the cost of spring mounts and shackle hangers. This could be as high as ~$250-300 if you go with a kit.

Phil</STRONG>
<The above is an extremely biased opinion since he owns a factory solid axle rig>

<IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Hi Phil!

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Trade you a 22R-E for some 4.88 gears and a HP housing...

<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
How about a cost comparison between converting an '86-'95 truck versus a Tacoma SAS? While the Tacoma conversions are still in the minority, there will come a day when there will be as many Tacomas as there are IFS pickups floating around.

Granted, no "kit" exists for swapping a Tacoma, but I'd think the principle is pretty much the same (buying an axle, steering, fabricating spring hangers, etc.).
 

·
Wicked Raciest !
Joined
·
17,738 Posts
Originally posted by kongs4x4:
<STRONG>Time spent in the garage converting an IFS is lost time you could be beating on your SA.
Time is still money even when your working for your self. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
Sorry I do not look at my time as money, This is my hobby a place to take my mind away from what I do 9 hours to keep me at the level of poverty I am used to. Phil you are right, if you have to have it done it adds a lot to the cost. That is why I am so glad that I can do the work myself. A guy that I have wheeled with once has an SAS Taco and had a shop do a turn key swap, cost out the door $10,000.00!!!!

<IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,230 Posts
Originally posted by ToyTech:
<STRONG><The above is an extremely biased opinion since he owns a factory solid axle rig>

<IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Hi Phil!

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Trade you a 22R-E for some 4.88 gears and a HP housing...

<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
Hehehe.... Hi Jimbo <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">

Ummmmmm ........ maybe <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I'll go find another housing and give you a call <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,920 Posts
you guys have a very good point, I never thought I could have a good wheeler that looks good too, for close to the same price. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, as much as I love the looks of my 82, the 89+'s look alot better, but they'll cost more to buy for now, but thats money well spent if I can just keep from rolling the damn thing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
471 Posts
This is a great post! Since I am in the process of shopping for a SFA 4runner I find it very interesting. A couple of you hit on the major reason to go SA vs. IFS is labor cost. For beginners like me. I am learning how to's and what abouts with these toys. I sparked my interest in offroading in a Tacoma, built that up, and now want more. I have no experience with a torch or welder. And I have no garage to keep a timely project. Not to mention that my rig is a daily driver. I can not afford the time, nor have the experience to do a SAS. For those of us learning, a SA rig is best. Just about anyone can turn a wrench. And it can be done in a weekend on a SA rig. I would love to do a SAS, but I don't have that option. And I am assuming the most others buying a SA rig feel the same.
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Top