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Discussion Starter #1
Original build can be found here.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791009&highlight=

Time to upgrade. Quick background and current specs.

97 TJ, 104" wheelbase ~4" of lift
2.5L, AX-5, 231/300
Hydro assist, DOM drag link and tie rod, ruffstuff heims
78 Bronco HP 44 front, 4.56, spool
Modified Ford radius arms ~44" long
14" FOA coilovers
Ford 9" rear, 4.56, spool
Double triangulated 4-link rear
16" Fox airshocks
36" TSL's

I have been wheeling it as is for the last year and have no complaints. Never felt like I needed more power under the hood. With the doubler I can wheel with the AC on :grinpimp:. This thing was built to crawl, not race. I don't feel I need a bunch of HP. Built it in my 2 car garage. I had a Comanche before the TJ with these same axles and tires. I tore it down, sold what I didn't need, and kept the rest. I was able to build the TJ with no out of pocket money spent. I sold everything off the Comanche, including the unibody/frame. Built the TJ with what I had and ran it.

The wheelbase and suspension was built with 39" tires in mind. A couple months ago I came across a kingpin 60 and was able to trade my 44 and tires for it and a few other things. Sold my little 2wd S-10 and bought a set of 39" crawlers. Here are a few pics before the tear down.







 

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Discussion Starter #2
New specs for the front end.

3-link with panhard
HP kingpin dana 60, detroit, 4.88


The jeep is tore down with the axle in place. I took some measurements this weekend and this is where I'm at as far as numbers go.



Anti dive/lift will be adjustable. One hole up on the upper frame end will put it at 66%, one hole down 0.87%. Trying to keep the LCA's as flat as possible. I have read a lot over the last 2 months about wheel recession, anti dive/lift. I am happy with these numbers. This thing gets towed to the trail, so I'm not concerned about having a high anti dive/lift %. Roll axis angle is less than 1.

Any thoughts/advice on these numbers would be appreciated. My only real concern is the vertical separation. 6.75" at the axle and 5.5" at the frame.


I will be able to use the frame end brackets for the radius arms for the lowers. Ruffstuff adjustable bracket for the upper.






Keeping the wheelbase at 104". I will probably have to notch the frame to clear the drag link and track bar to get 4" of up travel. I want it low but not to low. Trying to strike a balance between low CG and ground clearance. Frame sits at 23".





Need to pick up a breaker and so I can hook up my new welder and start tacking things up this weekend.
 

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Your first build was great, very detailed, so I'm sure round 2 will be just as good if not better. Looking forward to watching it!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Was able to get the suspension mocked up this weekend. All brackets have been tacked in place. The LCA axle brackets have more horizontal separation than originally calculated. Didn't change the numbers much. Roll axis came down .3 and the IC Z-Axis went about 3".





I also heated and bent the wagoner pitman arm up ~ 1.5" to get 4" of up travel. After I heated it I threw it in one of the furnaces at work at 200* so it would cool extremely slow. Also had to pull the front axle back about .25". The TRE barley clears the top of the dif cover.


The is a late 80's 60. Cut off 2" of the cast section.









Removed the track bar bracket from the frame.








The lowers sit about as flat as I can get them without having the frame end brackets hang below the skid. The axle end brackets sit .75" above the axle centerline. The axle should move up when I hit a ledge (I hope anyway). I used to have a fair amount of lift before with the radius arms. They had a little bit more angle to them than these LCA's.

I'll get the knuckles back on the axle this week so I can start mocking the track bar and steering.
 

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Any updates???? looks great:D

Also, do you have any plans for gusseting the 60 where you removed the 2" of material, or do you think there is enough strength there to not worry about it?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well back in Monterrey after being back in Salt Lake for about a month. Granny had a stroke and a heart attack so I was out for a bit. She's doing fine and is back home now so on with the build.


Don't plan on gusseting the 60, just going to weld the tube to the cast. Dropped the 9" off at a local shop to have the gears changed just before I went back home. Got it back under the jeep.

I was able to get the suspension and steering finalized over the last few evenings. Everything cycled with no problem. Brought a new set of 16" FOA's with me for the front. I'm planning on having 5" of shaft showing but 4" of actual uptravel. In a year or so when I swap engines (I have a 4.3 CPI rebuilt and ready to go) I plan on cutting off the front of the frame and leveling it out so I can have the full 5" of up.

Also brought a set of roughstuff heims with me. 7/8 with a 7/8 bore. Their website says the spacers with these have a 3/4 bore, however mine came with a 5/8. I needed a 3/4 so I turned my own one night after work. I'll explain when I post the pic.

Track bar and drag link both measure 35" and run parallel to each other. Drag Link, tie rod and track bar made from 1.5 x .25 DOM. Caster set at about 7*.

On to the pics.

Track bar brackets. Just need to clean up a bit. Round off corners etc.







Crane high steer arm.





Suspension at full stuff. Tie rod end just clears the dif cover. Track bar has ~ .25 before it hits the dif.





 

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Discussion Starter #8
Here are a couple pics of the high misalignment spacers I machined.







This is why I needed a 3/4 bore on the drag link heim. I'm running the drag link above the arm and the tier rod below using the same hole. This way I can use a 3/4 bolt through both. The tie rod heim is a 7/8 with 3/4 bore with no spacer.





Thats it for now. Hoping to take it out on Saturday for a test run.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Updates? :flipoff2: What beadlocks are on the 39s?


Updates :flipoff2: Allied. I bought them a while back, they are 5 on 5.5. I had 2 of them recentered with an 8 lug for the 60.


I did finally get it in the rocks. Nothing crazy just wanted to see how everything worked together before i boxed and gusseted everything. Flexes really well. The air shocks were way to soft though. It had a lot of body roll, the rear was rolling around a bit.

They were running 300 ml of oil and 275 psi. Drained them, and added 375 ml of new oil and 210 psi. The coilovers weren't even charged. I charged them to 70 psi. I'll see how it feels the next time I get it out.

The drivers side coil was hitting the track bar frame bracket when drivers side was fully extended and passenger fully compressed. I moved the track bar about 1" to the passenger side. Coil clears fine now fully flexed.

Just just need to gusset and box the brackets, change the coilover axle brackets, weld in some tabs in a few places to get the brake lines held right

I had pics of the front end before the shakedown and some of the Jeep during. I have since lost my camera :mad3: I took a few pics of the front end with the changes made to the track bar with my cell.


Track bar/drag link fairly flat






The coil was only hitting the rearmost plate of the 2 that make up the bracket. I drilles a new hole in each 1" to the passenger side then trimmed the one enough to clear the spring. I need to box in the bracket and weld a plate to each side where the bolt passes through .5" of steel on each side.








and then the battery started to die......................






That's it for now. Get back to Monterrey next week. Should be able to get it done and back out in the next couple of weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
On a side note :flipoff2:




Bought a new truck yesterday. Sold a clean 98 Sahara a couple moths ago and have been looking for a Dodge Cummins. Found this. 98 Ram 2500 4x4 with the 12 valve Cummins. This thing has twin turbos and puts 700-750 HP to the rear wheels. :skull: with a drivetrain built to handle that kind of power and torque. It was built by a reputable diesel performance shop. The guy I bought it from works there.

Truck is extremely clean inside and out. Paid a hell of a lot less than it would cost to buy a truck this clean and build it up to this stage. Way less. Only problem is its red, same as my TJ. Now I'm THAT GUY. You know, the one with matching tow rig/wheeler :shaking: I used to make fun of those guys :flipoff2:





 

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is it a 4wd ? if is please get some real tires for it

and by the way your truck is like 4000 mi away from your wheeling rig :d
 

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What's your driveshaft length with the doubler and 300? What's your drivetrain length from bellhousing to the yoke on the 300?

I'm thinking about making a crawlbox in front of my 300 but I don't think I'd have enough space, even with a 4" rear stretch.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
is it a 4wd ? if is please get some real tires for it

and by the way your truck is like 4000 mi away from your wheeling rig :d


Yes but the red truck will soon be joining the wheeling rig :flipoff2:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
What's your driveshaft length with the doubler and 300? What's your drivetrain length from bellhousing to the yoke on the 300?

I'm thinking about making a crawlbox in front of my 300 but I don't think I'd have enough space, even with a 4" rear stretch.


Drive shaft is about 24". I had a Tom Woods with one of their machined double cardon's and still had to limit the droop of the dif. I'll get a measurement from bellhousing to yoke tonight and post it up tomorrow.

In a couple of months I'll be putting in the 4.3L I had rebuilt a few years ago. When I do, I will be getting rid of the box4rocks and putting a NWF blackbox-i so I can have a longer driveline and not have to limit the droop in the rear. They are not cheap, but between what I can sell the 2.5, AX-5 and box4rocks for, I won't have to spend much out of pocket.

If you can make it work do it. I love the low ratio and all the gearing options a crawl box gives. I would not change it for a single transfer case.
 

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Drive shaft is about 24". I had a Tom Woods with one of their machined double cardon's and still had to limit the droop of the dif. I'll get a measurement from bellhousing to yoke tonight and post it up tomorrow.

In a couple of months I'll be putting in the 4.3L I had rebuilt a few years ago. When I do, I will be getting rid of the box4rocks and putting a NWF blackbox-i so I can have a longer driveline and not have to limit the droop in the rear. They are not cheap, but between what I can sell the 2.5, AX-5 and box4rocks for, I won't have to spend much out of pocket.

If you can make it work do it. I love the low ratio and all the gearing options a crawl box gives. I would not change it for a single transfer case.
Gotcha.

Food for thought:

sm420/465 in front on an Atlas....6.9 first gear, 3.34 second....atlas does the rest and you have a kickass rear driveshaft length.
 

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looks like you're building in Mexico. Lucky! SLC is cold right now... brrr
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Gotcha.

Food for thought:

sm420/465 in front on an Atlas....6.9 first gear, 3.34 second....atlas does the rest and you have a kickass rear driveshaft length.

Ya I thought about the same thing a while back. This Jeep does see some street time and its nice to have the 5th gear. I can drive this thing here and not worry about getting pulled over, and on the rare occasion I do, I just give the transit cop 50 pesos (less than $5 US) and I'm on my way with no hassles. Weight was also a factor. The idea from the beginning was to keep this thing as light as possible, hence the drive train choice. 4.3 weighs 150-175# less than a SBC, AX-15 weighs less than a 100#, transfer case less than 100#, minimal body armor, it all adds up.

What's your drivetrain length from bellhousing to the yoke on the 300?

About 43"


Here is a pic of the finished product.





I ended up putting an anti-rock in the rear, made a big difference in stability. I just bought a spider 9 roller from a PBB member with 35 spline shafts and wilwood's, I've had 2 shafts on my stock 9 break so far. I'll get some more detailed pics of everything and post them here in the next week or 2.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
looks like you're building in Mexico. Lucky! SLC is cold right now... brrr

Ya, I was there for 3 weeks in Dec and it was a bit chilly. I heard it finally snowed a few days ago. I'll be in SLC tomorrow for about 10 days. See if it's worth it to go boarding while I'm there.
 
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