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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I got a 2000 TJ with a Rockcrusher HP 60 rear and I finally got the money saved to build the front. My plans are to use Solid axle industry, HP 60 center, inners Cs, outers and hysteer setup for about 64". I am debating whether to go with a the ball joint style or Kingpin either way I will set it up with spindles and 35 spline shafts rather than using a Unit Bearing. Right now I have the funds to go ahead with the Balljoint style, a kingpin setup is about 1,000 more or 6K vs 7k. So is it really worth the extra? I will be running 38" TSL and putting about 15,000 road miles a year on the Jeep in addition trail ridding. The balljoint 60 should be plenty strong. Once I start the build I will post it up.
 

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Kingpins. Although 7k for a front axle to run 38's is a little crazy IMO. Find a Ford HP and build it up. Cost would be half of what you are gonna pay for a Solid....
 

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Regardless whether you go ball-joint or kingpin, you will need to get a handle on the "real estate" requirements of your pitman arms, steering arms, panhard link, tie rods, and anti-sway bars (For the DD dimension.) High steer really "doesn't play well with others." It's doable, but the ability to mock up, tack, and cycle the suspension before burning it in will save you a lot of grief.

Good luck.
 

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Go with the kingpins . Well worth the extra coin. Especialy if you decide you want to run hydro assist or bigger tires. My buddy with a dynacrap 60 gets about 8 to 10 runs out off his ball joints before they need to be replaced. He is also running full hydro and 39" krawlers. Just my 02.
 

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And I thought the 4k in my 60 was ridiculous!!


Go kingpin, everyone will say this for strength and durability, unless you find a screaming deal on a BJ 60 your were building yourself, kingpins are the way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thruout this process I put togeather a build list/ approxiamte price for several options as follows: 1979 Ford Dana 60 versus Solid Axle Industries

Dana 60 1979 Ford Build list 35 spline outers with new outer knuckles and 5 x5.5 bolt patern 64.5"

Part Cost Notes
1 Axle Service/Gear Setup $300.00
1A 1979 Ford Axle Housing $1,000.00
1B Narrow to 64.5" $200.00 3-1/8" 0.5" Thick
19 Differential Bearing Cap Included with 1A
20 Bolt – Differential Bearing Cap Included with 1A
15 Carrier Cover Included with 1A
17 Plug – Carrier Cover Included with 1A
18 Bolt – Carrier Cover Included with 1A
1B Inner C's - Included with 1A
16 Carrier Cover Gasket / Sealant $6.00


2 Drive Pinion & Gear Assembly $223.00 5:13 Reverse Rotation
2A Master Install Kit $130.00
3 Slinger – Inner Pinion Bearing Included with 2A
4 KIT – Inner Pinion Bearing Included with 2A
5 Inner Pinion Shim Included with 2A
6 Baffle – Pinion Bearing Included with 2A
7 Outer Pinion Shims Included with 2A
8 KIT – Outer Pinion Bearing Included with 2A
9 Slinger – Outer Pinion Bearing Included with 2A
10 1Seal – Pinion Oil Included with 2A
12 Washer – Pinion Nut Included with 2A
13 Pinion Nut Included with 2A

14 Companion Flange Assembly Not Required Used 11 instead
11 End Yoke Assembly - Size 1350 already have

23 Case – Differential/Locker $525.00 4.56 up 35 spline HP 60
21 KIT – Differential Bearing Included with 21
22 Shim – Differential Bearing Included with 21
24 Bolt – Drive Gear Included with 21
25 Pinion – Differential Included with 21
26 Gear – Differential Included with 21
27 Thrustwasher – Diff. Pinion Included with 21
28 Thrustwasher – Diff. Gear Included with 21
29 Shaft – Differential Pinion Included with 21
30 Lock – Differential Shaft Included with 21

31 Seal & Guide Tube - Included with 1A


39A Kingpin Rebuild Kit $100.00 Extra parts b/c high steer
40 Lube Fitting Included with 39A
41 Nut – Hex Tapered Included with 39A
42 Lockwasher – Upper King Pin Cap Included with 39A
43 Steering Arm (LH only) Included with 39A
Upper King Pin Cap (RH only) Included with 39A
44 Gasket – King Pin Cap Included with 39A
45 Compression Spring Included with 39A
46 Retainer Spring Included with 39A
47 King Pin Bushing Included with 39A
48 King Pin Included with 39A
51 Lockwasher – Lower King Pin Cap Included with 39A
52 Hex Bolt – Lower King Pin Cap Included with 39A
32 Seal – Upper King Pin Included with 39A
33 Grease Retainer Included with 39A
34 Oil Seal Included with 39A
35 KIT – Lower King Pin Bearing Included with 39A

49 Knuckle Assembly $430.00 Use High Steer Arms
49A Spindle Studs Included with 49
36 Stop Screw Included with 49
37 Jam Nut Included with 49

50 Lower King Pin Bearing Cap $54.00

53 Shaft & Joint Assembly See 53A, 53B, 53C
53A Inner Shafts - included in 1A
53B Outer Shafts 35 Spline $124.00 Spicer includes 2
53C U-Joints 80.00 1480

54 Slinger – Spindle Yoke $5.00 1 set includes 2

54A Inner Spindle Bearing Kit $18.00 2 sets
55 Oil Seal Included with 54A
56 Spacer – Wheel Bearing Spindle Included with 54A
57 Oil Seal - Block Vee Included with 54A
58 Needle Bearing Assembly Included with 54A

59 Wheel Bearing Spindle $100 Chevy

60 Brake Mounting Nut

62 KIT – Inner Wheel Bearing $90.00 2 sets
61 Oil Seal Included with 62
63 KIT – Outer Wheel Bearing Included with 62

63A Spindle Nut and Washer Kit $45.00 1 kit includes 2 sets
65 Inner Wheel Bearing Nut Included with 63A
66 Lock Nut Included with 63A
67 Outer Wheel Bearing Nut Included with 63A

64 Wheel Hub (5 x 5.5) $378.00 2 (5 x 5.5) hubs

64A Brakes
Caliper Brackets $68.00 2 included
Rotors $80.00 2 included
Calipers $70.00 10 bolt/44 takeoffs

Lockouts 35 spline $196.78 1 set includes 2
68 Spring Retaining Plate Included with 63A
69 Pressure Spring
70 Axle Drive Gear
71 Snap Ring
72 Hub Cap

72A Steering System
72B Tie Rod Assembly $195.00
72C Draglink $150.00

73 Hi Steer Arms $180.00 Must match aftermarket Knuckles
74 TJ Brackets $300.00
Take off sale
Spindles (-$100.00)
Outer knuckles (-$100.00)
outer shafts (-$50.00)

Total 4,797.78
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Versus a Solid Axle Kingpin Syle HP 60 5 x5.5 64.5" wide


1 Housing – Axle Service/Gear Setup $300.00
1A Center Section $795.00
1B Tubes $600.00 Local 3-1/8" 0.5" Thick
19 Differential Bearing Cap Included with 1A
20 Bolt – Differential Bearing Cap Included with 1A
15 Carrier Cover Included with 1A
17 Plug – Carrier Cover Included with 1A
18 Bolt – Carrier Cover Included with 1A
16 Carrier Cover Gasket / Sealant $6.00 misc

1B Inner C's 550.00 Rockcrusher 3.125" Bore

2 Drive Pinion & Gear Assembly $223.00 5:13 Reverse Rotation
2A Master Install Kit $130.00 Precision
3 Slinger – Inner Pinion Bearing Included with 2A
4 KIT – Inner Pinion Bearing Included with 2A
5 Inner Pinion Shim Included with 2A
6 Baffle – Pinion Bearing Included with 2A
7 Outer Pinion Shims Included with 2A
8 KIT – Outer Pinion Bearing Included with 2A
9 Slinger – Outer Pinion Bearing Included with 2A
10 1Seal – Pinion Oil Included with 2A
12 Washer – Pinion Nut Included with 2A
13 Pinion Nut Included with 2A

14 Companion Flange Assembly Not Required Used 11 instead
11 End Yoke Assembly Size 1310

23 Case – Differential/Locker $525.00 detroit 4.56 up 35 spline HP 60
21 KIT – Differential Bearing Included with 21
22 Shim – Differential Bearing Included with 21
24 Bolt – Drive Gear Included with 21
25 Pinion – Differential Included with 21
26 Gear – Differential Included with 21
27 Thrustwasher – Diff. Pinion Included with 21
28 Thrustwasher – Diff. Gear Included with 21
29 Shaft – Differential Pinion Included with 21
30 Lock – Differential Shaft Included with 21

31 Seal & Guide Tube 55.00


39A Kingpin Rebuild Kit $100.00 Extra parts b/c high steer
40 Lube Fitting Included with 39A
41 Nut – Hex Tapered Included with 39A
42 Lockwasher – Upper King Pin Cap Included with 39A
43 Steering Arm (LH only) Included with 39A
Upper King Pin Cap (RH only) Included with 39A
44 Gasket – King Pin Cap Included with 39A
45 Compression Spring Included with 39A
46 Retainer Spring Included with 39A
47 King Pin Bushing Included with 39A
48 King Pin Included with 39A
51 Lockwasher – Lower King Pin Cap Included with 39A
52 Hex Bolt – Lower King Pin Cap Included with 39A
32 Seal – Upper King Pin Included with 39A
33 Grease Retainer Included with 39A
34 Oil Seal Included with 39A
35 KIT – Lower King Pin Bearing Included with 39A

49 Knuckle Assembly $430.00 Rockcrusher Must Use RC High Steer Arms
49A Spindle Studs Included with 49
36 Stop Screw Included with 49
37 Jam Nut Included with 49

50 Lower King Pin Bearing Cap $54.00 Spicer

53 Shaft & Joint Assembly See 53A, 53B, 53C
53A Inner Shafts $325.00 Dutchman includes 2
53B Outer Shafts $124.00 Spicer Spicer includes 2
53C Joint $80.00 Spicer 1480

54 Slinger – Spindle Yoke $5.00 Yukon 1 set includes 2

54A Inner Spindle Bearing Kit $18.00 Yukon 2 sets
55 Oil Seal Included with 54A
56 Spacer – Wheel Bearing Spindle Included with 54A
57 Oil Seal - Block Vee Included with 54A
58 Needle Bearing Assembly Included with 54A

59 Wheel Bearing Spindle $300.00 Rockcrusher

60 Brake Mounting Nut ?

62 KIT – Inner Wheel Bearing $90.00 2 sets
61 Oil Seal Included with 62
63 KIT – Outer Wheel Bearing Included with 62

63A Spindle Nut and Washer Kit $45.00 1 kit includes 2 sets
65 Inner Wheel Bearing Nut Included with 63A
66 Lock Nut Included with 63A
67 Outer Wheel Bearing Nut Included with 63A

64 Wheel Hub (5 x 5.5) $378.00 OEM 2 (5 x 5.5) hubs

64A Brakes
Caliper Brackets $68.00 2 included
Rotors $80.00 OEM 2 included
Calipers $70.00 OEM 10 bolt/44 takeoffs

Lockouts $196.78 Warn 1 set includes 2
68 Spring Retaining Plate Included with 63A
69 Pressure Spring
70 Axle Drive Gear
71 Snap Ring
72 Hub Cap

72A Steering System
72B Tie Rod Assembly $195.00
72C Draglink $150.00

73 Hi Steer Arms $180.00 Rockcrusher Must use with RC Knuckles
74 TJ Brackets $300.00

Total 6,372.78

IT looks like the Balljoint style would be $500 less

So its is about an extra $1700 for the extra strength and clearance of a Solid Axle Industries 60 versus a 1979 Ford HP 60 rebuild

I am actually considering buying a fully assembled unit as shown below a couple places sell a standard TJ assembly for about what it would cost for me to assemble it

 

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Glad to see you're starting your own thread. I really don't think you need to spend that much coin on a HP60. If you did a lot more yourself (brackets, welding, fab, etc etc) you would save hundreds, if not, thousands of dollars. I mean, I priced out a HP60 to $3K if I did all the work and that with some bling. I don't think you'll need new knuckles and some of the other beef you want with only 38s. Hell, stock 60 stuff would probably survive as long as you don't have a V8 and a stupid pedal.

EDIT: By the way, the 86+ Ford HP60s are easier to build since they only need one side cut. They are more plentiful, cheaper, and are usually in better shape. Up to 92 (IIRC) is kingpin, after that is balljoint. I think you should build off that and add some of the stuff to it. If you break a knuckle or inner C, then upgrade. Otherwise, go with 42s :flipoff2:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If I was starting from scratch I would run full width 8 lug front and rear. However, I have a HP 60 semifloat Rockcrusher Rear and it would cost too much to convert it to a full float 8 lug. So at this point I am going with 5 on 5.5 with a 61" rear and 64" front WMS to WMS. I need to think about the hysteer some more, there may be too much interference with only 4" of lift. I have considered taking on the entire project myself (Welding, cutting etc) however, since I put alot of street miles on it I want it to be setup 100% right.
 

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So, put the semi float 60 on JU, sell it and take the money to set up a full width 60 with the gears and locker you want, use the extra cash to get the H2 wheels so the full widths aren't as wide, then save a few grand on your front end setup.

Its all about bang for the buck here. Why spend 7 grand on a front axle in order to match a rear axle thats too narrow for 38's to begin with? Of course thats following my keep it wider than it is tall theorie. Take it from someone who's been there and done that, spending alot of cash to build a wheeler, then realising a few years later that it isn't quite what you want and having to start over kinda sucks.
 

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none

If there's one thing i've learned while building jeeps...
it's don't throw good money after bad!!!!
go to the junk yard and buy 2 full widths. go on craigslist and buy h1's.
If you look hard enough you can find ones with 4.56's...
weld the rear or detroit both. Ctm the fronts...
Sell your rear end to and newbie jeep guy...
and be D.U.N.
 

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So, put the semi float 60 on JU, sell it and take the money to set up a full width 60 with the gears and locker you want, use the extra cash to get the H2 wheels so the full widths aren't as wide, then save a few grand on your front end setup.

Its all about bang for the buck here. Why spend 7 grand on a front axle in order to match a rear axle thats too narrow for 38's to begin with? Of course thats following my keep it wider than it is tall theorie. Take it from someone who's been there and done that, spending alot of cash to build a wheeler, then realising a few years later that it isn't quite what you want and having to start over kinda sucks.
I agree with this, go full width and build a set of junkyard axles. I know you may have justified the cost of the Solid, but damn that is a ton of money for an axle. With you running 38's it is just not needed. If you are dead set on the Solid then go with either style you want, KP would be better IMO. But with 38's BJ may be OK.
 

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i am just finishing my build. i have 1140.00 into my 79 hp 60. your prices are really high too. shop the vendor section here and you will find cheaper. i dont have dedenbear nuckles yet but that will come down the road..shop around if your not in a big hurry, watch e bay there is alot of good deals on this stuff if shopped... go full width!!! and like they said run a 5 or more on your backspacing on your wheels and you will not be wide.
 

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I run full widths. I probably have 3-4k in my Ford HP Front but that is after replacing everything inside it. Gears, locker, seals, bearings, spindle, nuts, brakes, etc. I also have chromo outers, flanges and dedenbear knuckles. I fun 5.25 BS wheels and it is not wide at all, but still stable. Narrowed axles are not the way to go on a full-bodied jeep. Do it right and do it once.
 

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If you are willing to hunt for one a front 60 can be had for much less than $1k. Buy a whole truck for a few hundred bucks, keep the axles, sell off the engine and driveline, and scrap the rest.


Do another price comparison or what it would cost to seel the semifloat and buy matched junkyard axles.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Building full widths is not a bad idea I have thiought about it a lot. But if I build a custom front I at least want to go wide enought where I so I could go with larger tires later 40's or 42's. It seems like I always want to go bigger started with 32's, then 35's, and I currently have 36"s. At the beginning of this post I was headed down the route to a 64" wide front and was going to use 1.25" spacers in the rear to put the rear to 63". Actually if I go the new route I should proally think about going 66" up front and selling the rear to go with a ~64" LP full float 60 as a replacement or a Cab and Chassis shaved 14 bolt. In your opinion what would be the optimal axle width and wheel backspacing Front and rear to be able to accomadate 38's thru 42' with out having to worry too much about rolling and still be able to drive it on the road. Here is an idea of what my current width is with 36's.
 

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Most peeps run a cab and chassis 14B (63" WMS) and a narrowed HP60 to 65" WMS. Other guys will tell you to go full width. It's all your personal choice and the trails you will run. If you plan to DD it for a while I would go with narrow axles but that's just me. By the way, to give you an idea of what a 65" WMS front looks like, here's my rig. HP44, 3.75" BS on the wheels, 63" WMS at the rear:

(crappy cell phone pic but you get the idea)



Oh, and check the Ultimate TJ Build Ups thread in my sig for ideas and motivation ;)
 

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Wheel backspacing has a lot to do with the overall width. I'm running '79 F250 Dana 60's front and rear with H2 wheels (front is 69.5" and the rear is 65"). Since the backspacing on the H2 wheels is 5.5", it pulls the tires in more. Personally, I'd go fullwidth, and then adjust the overall width as necessary with wheel backspacing. If you want to go wider in the future, it's pretty simple, buy new wheels, done. :D

 

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Well I just installed a Solid HP 60 in my 03 rubicon, first class axle. But I'm running a rear Solid FF HP 60 as well. I can't say enough for the service, first class all the way. I'm running king pin in the front with high steer arms. Drives great on the highway and trails too. Talk to Matt at Solid and he will help you out, he help me on mine. Good luck!
 
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