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Discussion Starter #1
Well it was good to see a fairly big crowd but we need to make that a HUGE crowd on Nov 1st. We need to be rational and find a solution everyone can live with. Currently you have to go through private property to get to the BLM land. I don't know the solution but I do know I want to be a part of it - so be sure to be there Nov 1st!

Saw Billy Bob, Dan Boggess, Steve H, Flashlightman, rockmycj (joe), and a bunch more people but I better see more on Nov 1st <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
 

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Awesome, Just marked it on my calendar, Thursday Nov. 1st. COME AWN GUYS!!!!!!! We need to STAND UP and fight for these trails or we WILL lose them. Take a couple of hours out of your sooo IMPORTANT life and drop by. <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0">
 

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Amen, Brandon, we gotta show up.

I won't be able to make next week, since I'll be in Vegas for SEMA, but I'll try to pull together more talking points.... next meeting will be dedicated mostly to Norton Ravine, but cooperating with the miners, horsefolks, and believe it or not, the homeowners on the Norton parcel will help us when it comes time to work out solutions on the Pine Hill Preserve parcels (that include the existing trail).

BTW, don't be too worried about the existing ingress over private property -- substantiating a legitimate claim for public right-of-way shouldn't be too hard, given the infusion of some bucks for a lawyer. Let's see how this shakes out to see whether legal action is appropriate.

It was great to see all the new faces who were at their first management meeting... some of us have been attending these meetings for over a year, and the new blood is a real lift!

Randii
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Randii,
I felt kinda lost even after the whole group thing - do you happen to have some history on BOTH of these cases so I can get some organized thoughts on them? I mean the only location I know of is the trail but public land is worth voicing your opinion on no matter what, so where is this other area?
 

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randii, brandon, and whomever else may have info on this, would you please send me (via email) some background info as to what the issues are here. I would like to be informed in order to make any comments. I can not just show up to show up. Sorry I am behind the curve here. Please catch me up!

Thanks! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

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I will try to summarize... that's a lot of writing, tho. Any chance we could just get together Sunday or Monday evening and rap this out?

I have the full BLM binder for the year's worth of planning we have done, with all the maps, as well... it might take about an hour to get a full idea of the parties involved and the process...

I'll still try to summarize shorter in words, but there is just so damn much involved... For this last meeting, I developed some 'Talking Points' that 'wheelers could use on these properties.
1.) Was that helpful?
2.) Any comments?
3.) Any more ideas?

This is *our* land -- PUBLIC land. We have a unique opportunity to engage in the management process, here. The landowners are certainly getting their wants heard... we need to do the same. As taxpayers -- that public land is OURS. We're going to have to continue paying taxes on it... so we damn well better retain the right to access it.

Randii
 

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I agree we need more info/background so we can go in NOV 1 with the same plan and a solidified front.

What’s at stake? correct me if I’m wrong but I think its basically several thousand acres of public lands, and how they will be used/managed.

I felt like we made a difference last night <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">. Here’s basically what we did.
After BLM folk answered a few questions everyone in the room, 50 to 70 people, got into small groups and tried to work together to come up with GOAL STATEMENTS that would characterize each others vision of how the public land should be used. These goal statements will be used by BLM to form their DRAFT PLAN.
Me and boggus were seated with one miner and 3 land owners approximately my parents age who have lived adjacent to the area for many many years, anyways trying to convince them that "a gate is not a solution" and that "public land should be kept for the people and not from the people" was difficult especially sine i'v only been there once.


The adjoing land owners are pretty scared of a wild fire being started by late night parties and disrespectful clowns thrashing the place and shooting.

everyone needs to be there NOV 1
 

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Originally posted by randii:
<STRONG>


I'll still try to summarize shorter in words, but there is just so damn much involved... For this last meeting, I developed some 'Talking Points' that 'wheelers could use on these properties.
1.) Was that helpful?
2.) Any comments?
3.) Any more ideas?


Randii</STRONG>

I found your sheet of info/talking points VERY helpful and informative, my only commet would be, if i could have only gotten them prior to the meeting day they would have been even more useful.

Thanks for all the time and effort you've obvisouly been putting into this.

FLASHLIGHTMAN

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Brian Anthony Gutierrez ]
 

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During the small discussion time there were a lot of homeowners getting there opinions heard. This is not good for the people that want to keep the trail open, since all of the homeowners that I talked to just want it shut down. The fouewheeling community needs to come to these meetings and voice an opinion. If we don't then we are powerless to stop public land from getting shut down. These meetings aren't just about Jurgens. They are about all public land.
We need to make a stand now and maintain our position. This is something we are going to face for the rest of our lives as taxpayers. Come Awwn people take a stand. It is bigger than most people realize.

just my incoherent .02
<IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">
 

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what time and where is the NOv 1 meeting, Shingle springs?
 

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Next meeting is Thursday November 1, 2001
Location: Coloma Odd Fellows Hall
Meeting starts at at 6:30 p.m.

here are some links.
http://www.ca.blm.gov/folsom/sfa_plan.html

Read the next link. This is in phase 1, vision statement formation. We need more support to help sway the vision statement.

For example, my table wanted "NO VEHICLE ACCESS as the number 2 point" I had to get this ammended to show it was not unanimous, but it was 6 to 1.
http://www.ca.blm.gov/folsom/sfa_protocols.html

I didn't count the people in the room but there were about 100+ people there, and I'd guess 90 homeowners and 10 recreationalists and 4 or 5 miners.

The homeowners have credible and understandable issues, but their attitude is "just close it" which is unacceptable. We need solutions to retain public access to public lands and to respect the homeowners lawful rights.

We need to get the access issue resolved, or at least need a legal opinion.

- Dan
 

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It is worth noting that the homeowners want it closed to public access... but they want to keep their gates.

Interesting concept -- they want full control over what goes on in public lands adjacent to their property... oh yeah, and they want those lands policed and maintained according to ther desires, too. All on the public dime. <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0">

One of the points I keep coming back to when I talk to a homeowner, is, "Respectfully, sir, I can understand why you want these things, but the only way to guarantee that land is managed in accordance with your every wish is to ***OWN*** that land... please remember that this is public land, managed by a public agency, with input from the public... and that includes me, a 4x4 enthusiast."

The easiest solution to this would be to have an inheld parcel there... anybody got a spare few hundred thousand? More realistically, is anybody buddies with the miners down there... they have existing claims, and mining claimants do possess limited but valid property rights...

Randii
 

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Does Cal4wd have any stand on this issue??
If not it's up to us local clubs.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
FYI I know there is a law that says a road traveled for some amount of time becomes public domain, I'll look it up in the survey books tonight..
 

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Discussion Starter #16
minutes and related links courtesy of Flashlightman <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Minutes
 

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I was hopeing to go but I was sick as a dog(even worse now).But I will be sure to make next thurs.See ya--the Fatboy <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks to everyone that came out and voiced their opinion, now it is time to come out and get dirty! There is a work party planned for Nov3rd, click HERE to sign up and for more information on the work to be done!
 
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