[Mo]

Welcome to the next installment of the

Topic of the Week


Alrighty... let's talk about ditching your carb and making your engine a fuelie.


I'm sure most of this will center around using the GM TBI jobbies, but let's not forget about plopping Ford SEFI stuff on your carbed 5.0, or grabbing the FI setup off a junkard 4.0 for your CJ...

you know the drill.

 

[Chrisjeep7]

holy damn i need EFI on mine real bad right now!!! can you just get a 4 barrel adapter and just put the complete TBI off a chevy on your AMC or do you need to modify the wiring harness and ECU?

 

[Hayfever]

I've been working on my 304 TBI for almost a year, it's been 1 headache after another, and that's even AFTER I bought my ECM from http://www.customefis.com. Honestly, I don't think I'd build one again, this guy prices them cheap enough. My problem is in my ignition, I converted the HEI that I had had made for the 304 from vacuum to electronic advance and it's been a bear tracing bugs in it.

Chrisjeep: Don't know if you have a 2bbl or a 4bbl manifold, I have the factory 2bbl and used Holley adapter 14-47 ( I think) which I was able to order through Jegs after they pricematched AutoZone's price (about $25 cheaper than everyone else).

 

[SledgeHammer]

Im in the process of doing a 5.0L ford mustang swap into my heep.
I haven`t decided which wireing harness i`m going to use yet,either a stock factory harness or the kit from painless wireing.
i`m leaning towards using a factory harness
1. its cheaper
2. I have a 86 5.0 stang & my brother has a 93(good for reference)
3. i have a few books wit great wireing diagrams
4. I`ve heard a few bad things about Painless harnesses
I`ll be posting my progress as soon as i get rolling.

 

[Rock Taxi]

Also in the process of doing one on an AMC 304 using all stock 305 parts. So far it has been an easy, cheap swap, and it idles perfect, and revs great up to 5k, but stumbles around 1000 rpm. I have my injectors being flow tested right now, and a custom chip being burned to see if that solves my issues. I should have the chip and injectors back early next week.

I cannot tell for sure, but it appears timing is the problem. If the chip solves the issues, it will be complete and working for less that 25% of the cost of a kit.

Ed

 

[Rock Taxi]

holy damn i need EFI on mine real bad right now!!! can you just get a 4 barrel adapter and just put the complete TBI off a chevy on your AMC or do you need to modify the wiring harness and ECU?

You will need an adapter, all the TBI related sensors and parts, and will need to modify the harness. You will also need a fuel filter and pump. Other than that, it is pretty easy.

Ed

 

[Chrisjeep7]

Chrisjeep: Don't know if you have a 2bbl or a 4bbl manifold, I have the factory 2bbl and used Holley adapter 14-47 ( I think) which I was able to order through Jegs after they pricematched AutoZone's price (about $25 cheaper than everyone else).

i have an 4bbl manifold, it is a aluminum torker.

 

[Chrisjeep7]

You will need an adapter, all the TBI related sensors and parts, and will need to modify the harness. You will also need a fuel filter and pump. Other than that, it is pretty easy.

Ed

so it is really that easy? how would you hook up the ignition? i am guessing i could easily get an aftermarket pump that plugs into the stock harness? or is it easy to cut and splice? spill them beans!

 

[Rock Taxi]

Well, getting the parts is pretty easy, the list of junk needed is pretty short. Making the harness is a mild pain, and as I have found, making it run is not so easy either.

The EFI expert I contacted gave me a shout today. the supposedly 305 injectors I had, are actually the high end, 67#/hr injectors and I need the 50#/hr ones for a 305. The chip I had was also a 350, not a 305 like I was told when I grabbed the ECM. It ran, just soooooo dang rich.

Hopefully the chip and injectors will show up early next week, and this thing will be "done".

Ed

 

[SeaBass44]

So I got a 360 mopar, I grab a TBI unit from a 350 GM and computer and harness, hows it hook up? Where do ya find out what sensors are needed? And NO, I'm not going to do this, just throwing it out there for the dodge boys that do want it A cheap ass carb that works is way cheaper:flipoff2: :emb4: :emb4: :emb4:

 

[Rock Taxi]

Dodges really don't need EFI - they need a motor swap to a GM power plant! LOL!!!!!

Seriously, I ran a MC2100 for years and loved it until I started hitting a wide variety of altitudes and that is when it met it's match. At sea level it kicked ass, but by 7000' it started being a bit cantenkerous.

For a TBI install, you need the throttle body with TPS and IAC motor, O2 sensor, ECM, CTS, Knock sensor (optional) MAP, ESC, Harness, Ignition Module and EGR modules. I am running mine without the EGR valve. You will also need a pump and filter, and more than likely, and adapter for the throttle body to the manifold unless you can put a TBI manifold on your motor.

Ed

(fingers crossed that the chip and injector change will solve my issues)

 

[Hayfever]

Ed, are you using the ECM to control the ignition timing? I'm having problems getting my HEI into time (I have a AMC V8 adapted HEI from M&M 4x4 in OH that I got as a vacuum-advance and switched the innards to computer-controlled when I started the TBI project), basically as it approaches the proper timing the engine dies. If you're not having the engine control timing, how did you get around the need for the signal in the ecm? Or if you are (since you have a few timing problems too), any ideas/tips as to what might be my problem?

 

[Rock Taxi]

Yes, I am using the ECM to control timing, but it was running so rich with the 350 chip and 350 injectors, I could only get it to run if I adavanced the timing too much. I will see what I get as far as timing issues when I have the proper fuel delivery table. By looking at the ECM data while it was running, except for at a couple of RPM ranges, it was so rich the table was almost maxxed out, and boy, did the exhaust stink while it was running. Would make my eyes water bigtime.

I'll let you know this week how it works with a better chip and 305 injectors.

Ed

 

[Hayfever]

Yes, I am using the ECM to control timing, but it was running so rich with the 350 chip and 350 injectors, I could only get it to run if I adavanced the timing too much. I will see what I get as far as timing issues when I have the proper fuel delivery table. By looking at the ECM data while it was running, except for at a couple of RPM ranges, it was so rich the table was almost maxxed out, and boy, did the exhaust stink while it was running. Would make my eyes water bigtime.

Who made your chip? We wrote mine for the smaller injectors and then discovered I had the larger injectors and changed the BPW value accordingly, and now I am where I am. I have/had the same problem, could idle poorly with a severely advanced dist. Just put in a higher volume fuel pump, hope that will tweak up the output enough to make the difference (we tested my old one, it was fluctuating between 4 and 12 psi, new one is 15 )

 

[Rock Taxi]

I really can't tell you who made my chip, it is a major manufacturer of aftermarket kits, and they usually don't do this type of work, but did it as a favor to me under the understanding I would keep my trap shut.

We will see if the different injectors and fuel table solve my issue. Sounds like we are in a similar situation. I have seen an AMC 360 run perfectly off of a 350 setup with no mods, and have an acquaintance in Arkansas that ran a bone stock 305 unit on his 304 with no mods, and said it outperformed the TBI 305 he later swapped in so he could have a 700R4 behind it.

Oh well, it is all speculation for me until the chip arrives and I test it.

Ed

 

[mtndewmaniac]

So where could someone pick up the software and the datalink cable to hook up your laptop? I'm not having much luck on this one, and some shops that I call on seem to not have enough time to make any replies. I know that a person can bolt up all the components, but there are those who would like to tweak their F.I. to meet the recipient vehicles parameters. (weight, gearing, tire size, altitude, torque curve, etc)
I know, keep it simple and start off on first base.

 

[Hayfever]

So where could someone pick up the software and the datalink cable to hook up your laptop? I'm not having much luck on this one, and some shops that I call on seem to not have enough time to make any replies. I know that a person can bolt up all the components, but there are those who would like to tweak their F.I. to meet the recipient vehicles parameters. (weight, gearing, tire size, altitude, torque curve, etc)
I know, keep it simple and start off on first base.

I made the cable myself and have free software (think it's called WinALDL or something) that I got off the links page at http://www.customefis.com.

 

[willymutt]

BrianE on this board did an EFI swap on his 360. I haven't seen it yet, but have been told it runs great. I'll PM him and see if he will add some insight. I would really love to do this to mine as well.

What needs to be changed if I do it for my 304, and then have my 401 or 360 built to replace it? Do I just need a chip and injectors, or is it a new TB?

Erin

 

[Tmartin]

I used a homemade ECU called Megasquirt, parts and technology obtained from these knowledgeable guys:

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

to run a GM TBI on my 258 jeep motor. I used all junkyard parts except the fuel pump and Megasquirt ECU. Made my own adapter to the jeep intake using a 2 1/4 thick block of aluminum. Heavily bored out the stock plenum to make best transition to the GM tbi. Been running it for 3 months now and it kicks ass. Can idle so smooth and low the alternator won't charge, has instant throttle response at any rpm, starts at -30, and makes the best power I've ever seen from my 258.

More info available here:

http://members.shaw.ca/megasquirt/MS FAQ.htm

Cost to me was about $500.00 to put together. Used a tbi off an 89 caprice with 305 and used all the old sensors, except 02, which my jeep already had. Inline fuel pump (Carter F-M, don't recommend, it's too noisey).

Was easy to set up. The ecu tunes with a pc,or on the road with a laptop. You can drive and datalog to fine tune the VE table that controls fuel delivery. It's a simple, no frills speed density system that will work with TBI, multi-port and pretty much any engine with a distributor, batch fire, not sequential if you want multiport. Runs closed loop or open loop, speed density or N-alpha.

Advantages: Its an inexpensive, highly adaptable, tunable to any engine ECU that you built it yourself. Has great software support for tuning and diagnostics, and is proven reliable. If I want to swap to a larger than 305 V8, I can just change to larger injectors (or grab another $20.00 TBI) and retune.

I liked my Motorcraft 2100 carb, but you can't beat the power and throttle response this setup is delivering.

 

[Rock Taxi]

I like the concept of the megasquirt system, but have to admit, it intimidates the crap out of me to try it, to the point I lost interest.

Ed