Pirate 4x4 banner

61 - 80 of 135 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #61
I was looking at some after market custom transfer case transmission mounts. Here is a quote from one similar to what I built with the bushings on the ends of the mount and a hard mount in the center:

From Dave's Customs Unlimited

This well-engineered kit is designed to eliminate the factory center transmission mount, which will be mounted solid to the supplied plate. Furthermore, the urethane bushings at the ends of the new crossmember will act as the new transmission mount. The factory design was very poorly designed. It acted like a tripod. The engine was mounted solidly with two mounts and the transmission with one mount, which in return, the transmission wants to torque MORE than the engine. This is why guys/gals tear up their transmission mounts or crack their adapter housing. With our well thought out, unique design, you now have FOUR engine and transmission mounts, which will allow everything to torque the same, furthermore, alleviating blown out transmission mounts and cracked adapter housings.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #62
I have had a few good days of work on the Jeep project. I finally got the steering box mounted. I made a brace out of 1/4 inch 8X8 that I cut down to about 4 inches in a channel shape. I then welded tabs for the steering box bolts and gusseted them. I used 4 grade 8 bolts and mounted the brace to the frame. I welded the nuts onto the back/inside of the brace for easy removal. The box then mounts to the brace tabs. I think the arms lined up good once I boxed in a spot in the front frame cross member to allow the box to go forward an additional inch.






Then it was on to trimming the inner fenders to make room for the seats. I know you have seen this done many times. On the passenger side, I made the pieces and stitch welded from the inside. I followed the contour of the stock opening. I wish I had simply made the cut straight. I modified the second side to a straight cut and welded as much as I could from inside the fender well. Made for a much cleaner look on the inside. I suppose it won't make much difference seeing how I will bed line both inside and underneath.






Here is how the driver seat sits with the fender opened 4 inches. I thought I had better pictures from the inside, but......
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #63
Then I started on the rear fenders. At first, I was planning on simply cutting them to the larger size opening, then welding some sort of lip on the part where the lip was cut off. After seeing Daniel Buck's way of stretching the opening, I was sold. I went as far back as I could without getting into the rear fender curve, and used my square to mark a vertical line as well as a horizontal line about 1 1/2 inches above the fender radius. I then drew a second vertical line 4 inches forward from the other vertical line. That was the part I removed. I then used a piece of the removed metal to fill in the 4 inch by 1 1/2 inch gap at the top of the radius. I was very pleased with how it came out (thanks Daniel Buck). I haven't put any filler in yet because I am going to have the body media blasted eventually. Here are photos of both sides.








 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #64
I have been thinking ahead a little and looking at roll cage designs. The question I need answered before I get too far in the planning is does anyone run a Bestop Tiger Top, and can you tell me the bow dimensions as they relate to the top of the body tub (how high)? I am not ready to purchase the top, but I will be starting on the cage soon. I am open to suggestions on the cage, but I need to build one that allows the use of the rear seat. Thanks
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #65
Called Bestop and they said they would get me the dimensions of their Tiger Top. That was a couple of weeks ago, but....

Haven't had a lot of time to work, but I did purchase the parts I needed to get the steering taken care of. I purchased a plain tilt steering column from Summit, as well as an aluminum steering wheel, Borgeson joints, and Borgeson double D shaft.

I set the column under the dash where the stock column was positioned. It goes through the firewall through the factory opening. I was able to get by the exhaust header with about 1/2 inch clearance. I was hoping I could get it to work without having to put an extra joint. It looks like it is going to work and the steering column and seating position feels pretty good. I will need to tilt the wheel up to get in and out.





 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #66
A couple more shots of how everything sits with the steering column and driver seat. The column is 33 inches. I had to remove the stock splined mount because it didn't work with the aluminum steering wheel. Removing the mount shortened the column about 2 inches.




Also picked up some 1 3/4 .120 DOM.



I also started working on the transmission tunnel. I have a good start on it, but I want to get my shifters before I decide just how big the tunnel needs to be. I used a Lokar shifter on my M715, and it worked great, but this time I decided to order an Art Carr - Winters shifter. Unfortunately, they are on back order due to a part shortage. I ordered the flush mount unit with the rock gate standard.

Also spoke to Jon at JB Fabrication about transfer case shifters for my Dana 20. He is a great guy to deal with....very helpful. Being it is a Bronco unit means there is less of a choice than the Jeep cases. JB has a twin stick that would be fairly easy to adapt to my set up (one bracket would need modified). I also spoke to him about their cable shifters. I am thinking about running them since it will give more options for mounting the sticks. The way the transfer case is positioned on the driver side, I think it will put them very close to the seat. I am open to ideas if anyone has other thoughts.

 

·
Ford Bigot
Joined
·
4,101 Posts
I have had a few good days of work on the Jeep project. I finally got the steering box mounted. I made a brace out of 1/4 inch 8X8 that I cut down to about 4 inches in a channel shape. I then welded tabs for the steering box bolts and gusseted them. I used 4 grade 8 bolts and mounted the brace to the frame. I welded the nuts onto the back/inside of the brace for easy removal. The box then mounts to the brace tabs. I think the arms lined up good once I boxed in a spot in the front frame cross member to allow the box to go forward an additional inch.




.[/quote]



I would rethink that box mount. As in start over. It's not strong enough by a long shot.


You have all the fasteners clustered closely together for one. Secondly you have no provisions in the frame rail adding strength with regard to sheering the bolts or twisting the frame rail. Plate steel is not all that good at resisting twisting force, so I foresee that bracket turning into a pretzel the first time you put any load on it.

Any sort of stress on this and it's going to peel that bracket right through the frame rail.

I've already had to add extra gussets and bulkhead plates to my original GPW design after I noticed that frame rail flexing a bit when turning (even with hydro assist). It's now rock solid.

[LIST]
[*]I recommend making a proper plate that sandwiches both sides of the frame for the steering box.

[*]Make bulk heads in between the edges of the plate section and frame

[*]Add crush sleeves and run bolts through the frame rail to the steering box.
[/LIST]

Here is an example from both my GPW build (which I since have added extra gusseting to) and my FJ60 build:

[IMG]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/toyota-land-cruiser/1751690d1430685029-project-space-shuttle-v8-powered-fj60-coilovers-20150223_225928.jpg





 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #68
Thanks for the suggestions on the steering mount. I did weld additional 1/4 inch plate to the outside of the frame, but not to the inside. I did gusset the lower mount, but not to the extent yours is done. I will add some additional plate to the inside of the frame and I agree the crush sleeves are a good idea.

Also, I have a question regarding the angle the box is mounted. I mounted mine level to keep the steering shaft under the grill. Is there a rule of thumb for what angle the box should be mounted? I have connected the pitman arm to the drag link and everything operates smoothly.

Again, thanks for the suggestions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,696 Posts
I was looking at some after market custom transfer case transmission mounts. Here is a quote from one similar to what I built with the bushings on the ends of the mount and a hard mount in the center:

From Dave's Customs Unlimited

This well-engineered kit is designed to eliminate the factory center transmission mount, which will be mounted solid to the supplied plate. Furthermore, the urethane bushings at the ends of the new crossmember will act as the new transmission mount. The factory design was very poorly designed. It acted like a tripod. The engine was mounted solidly with two mounts and the transmission with one mount, which in return, the transmission wants to torque MORE than the engine. This is why guys/gals tear up their transmission mounts or crack their adapter housing. With our well thought out, unique design, you now have FOUR engine and transmission mounts, which will allow everything to torque the same, furthermore, alleviating blown out transmission mounts and cracked adapter housings.

That is disappointing to read from a vendor, calling it a well engineered kit is quite the claim when that is how they are done almost across the board with car companies for the last 100 years.

Look at 7500 lb diesel trucks with an 800lb TQ rating.. then multiply it through a granny gear and a 2.71 t-case.. I'm confident they have the better handle than the engineers at Daves offroad.

Either way, people do get lucky. Also if your chassis is stiff enough that could preclude some of the possibility of a cracked bell housing or adapter.


Awesome work btw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,696 Posts
Thanks for the suggestions on the steering mount. I did weld additional 1/4 inch plate to the outside of the frame, but not to the inside. I did gusset the lower mount, but not to the extent yours is done. I will add some additional plate to the inside of the frame and I agree the crush sleeves are a good idea.

Also, I have a question regarding the angle the box is mounted. I mounted mine level to keep the steering shaft under the grill. Is there a rule of thumb for what angle the box should be mounted? I have connected the pitman arm to the drag link and everything operates smoothly.

Again, thanks for the suggestions.
No real rule but I try to mount them with the pitman arm in a flat position so it can not max out a hiem or TRE at full bump or with down travel.

For your steering box the biggest thing is dealing with the lateral load. You can help it with a second cross member, hydro assist or pure beef.

You should definitely do sleeves in the frame. For the lateral load, I am doing a removable cross member right in front of the crank. I use hiem/rod ends and double sheer some tabs. It makes it high clearance, easily removable and if you plan well you can use the rod ends as a spare if you ever have one fail.

-Shawn
 

·
Ford Bigot
Joined
·
4,101 Posts
That is disappointing to read from a vendor, calling it a well engineered kit is quite the claim when that is how they are done almost across the board with car companies for the last 100 years.

Look at 7500 lb diesel trucks with an 800lb TQ rating.. then multiply it through a granny gear and a 2.71 t-case.. I'm confident they have the better handle than the engineers at Daves offroad.

Either way, people do get lucky. Also if your chassis is stiff enough that could preclude some of the possibility of a cracked bell housing or adapter.


Awesome work btw.

Agree. After I read that you can be damned sure I wouldn't buy anything from Dave's. That is pure retard drivel. I would fire whoever wrote that.

My Super Duty has a Center mount and makes 800 ft/lbs of torque. My Shelby has 631 ft/lbs of torque and a center mount.

I built a mount like Dave's when I was 21 and broke my bolts off my intermediate housing, then came to the light.
 

·
Ford Bigot
Joined
·
4,101 Posts
Thanks for the suggestions on the steering mount. I did weld additional 1/4 inch plate to the outside of the frame, but not to the inside. I did gusset the lower mount, but not to the extent yours is done. I will add some additional plate to the inside of the frame and I agree the crush sleeves are a good idea.

Also, I have a question regarding the angle the box is mounted. I mounted mine level to keep the steering shaft under the grill. Is there a rule of thumb for what angle the box should be mounted? I have connected the pitman arm to the drag link and everything operates smoothly.

Again, thanks for the suggestions.
Crush sleeves are a must. Run the bolts through the crush sleeves and make sure you have the thing gusseted against twisting axially with the frame rail. You'd be surprised at the amount of force one of these Saginaw boxes can produce.

As for the angle, there is really no hard-fast rule, though I generally try to keep the arc of the pitman arm as level as possible.

Otherwise I really like the build! Keep up the good work.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #73
It has been a long time since I have posted. I guess Pirate must have had some kind of need to change passwords and my old email had been hacked so I couldn't set up a new password. I kind of gave up, and had simply been reading the posts from time to time for ideas. I finally got things squared away so I can post again.

There have been times the Jeep has sat for weeks with no work getting done, but I have made some progress. Here is a picture how it currently sits When I have more time, I will attempt to update what I have done. I know I will have lots of questions. It is good to be back.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,977 Posts
I think the other consideration in regards to your transmission mount is that the cross member will be impacted with the skid plate. Some amount of flex will occur (more with the bushings at the frame) and this will load the bolts that are holding your T-case in a 'weird' way (possibly contributing to the 'you'll crack your t-case adapter' effect folks are noting).

I wanted to get my drivetrain as low as possible and still have a 'centered' mount, so I made my mount a piece that hard bolts to the t-case adapter, with tabs for bushings on either side of the T-case adapter, then the bushings actually mount to the skid plate / cross member. This allows the whole mount to be lower profile, and give me a higher belly with the same T-case / floor clearance.

Its worked out well, and the cross member is visibly bent from my belly skid contacting rocks and pushing into it.

I've also seen quite a few folks 'hang' the t-case from the seat cage bracket, (mount ABOVE the T-case) so that when the skid plate / cross member tubes get bent / impacted, the t-case isn't actually connected to them, and therefore doesn't get loaded 'weird'. I really like this approach and would consider it next time I'm building a new rig for myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
281 Posts
Troop, good to see you back on here.
I also have the rear 3.5" bds yj springs, I'm still building but I'd called bds a couple months ago. They told me on the 5 leaf pack to remove the second from bottom leaf, and that should be good unless I had a hard top. They also suggested the springs should sag about 4" from unloaded free height. Without the drivetrain but with the tub on the frame I was at 9.5" above the rear tire, with the engine/trans/transfer case added and mounted with diy crossmember they sagged to 8.5". I'm told they should sag another 1-2" after broken in which I think will be about perfect for my 37's.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #76
I am going to re-work the transfer case mount to make it center mount. I want more protection for the transmission and transfer case so will incorporate the two.

As for the rear springs, I purchased them used and one was sagging. It was replaced and now it looks like the other is sagging, but I am sure it is from lack of use. They were hardly used since the PO linked his Jeep. I will mount the spare tire, extra fuel can, and I will have a rear seat. For now I will wait and see how much they settle with all the leaves in. I do appreciate the information from BDS. That is good to know.

Here is a photo of my gas tank. I wanted a back seat and the tank underneath, but I couldn't see a way of getting a large enough tank under the back of the Jeep. I decided to make a tank that would be partially above the floor and partly below it. It is a 20 gallon tank made of stainless. It mounts from the top and fits just below the rear seat. The tank hangs about three inches below the bumper, and it steps up as it gets closer to the axle.







 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #77
Made the transmission tunnel by first forming it out of 1/4 solid steel rod. I then used 16 gauge to complete it. I will be able to remove it as one piece, using many of the existing fasteners from the original floor, although I will have to add several where I had to cut the floor for the driver drop transfer case. I also made a removable panel on the top of the tunnel.




Decided to vent my fender extensions I made to push the grill forward to lenghten the engine compartment. I ordered some perforated 16 gauge steel. I cut the center section out and replaced it with the perforated steel I am hoping it will let a bit of the heat escape the engine compartment.



 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #78
I wanted to add some body protection for the rocker panels and was trying to figure out what to do to modify the steps to the rear of the fender. I thought about cutting off the originals and building something further forward, but I like using the step to get in and out. I decided to make rocker protection out of 2x2 1/4 inch angle iron. I incorporated a new step that actually slides over the old step. There is frame work in front of the original step made of smaller angle iron, and the top of the step is covered with 16 gauge. The sliders will be tied in the frame mounts for the roll cage.


 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter #79
Made the roll cage out of 1 3/4 .120 DOM. I looked at many of the different cages, and wanted one with rear passenger protection that will fit under a Bestop Tiger Top. I liked the look of the cage on Savaras' first build and probably stayed close to what he had. I started with A pillars that formed a somewhat partial halo over the B pillar and joined in the center at the back. A tube runs from the floor in front of the rear fender and up and around the perimeter of the tub. B and C pillars weld into the halo. The cage will attach to the frame at 6 different points. I still need to run a tube behind the seats for Crow harnesses. I also still have a few more corner gussets to add.

As for the back seat, I had purchased a Courbeau 36 inch to match the front seats. While it fits well between the fenders, there is just not enough rear seat legroom. There is room for one person to put their feet between the front seats. I know, I should have stretched the tub, but I wanted to use a standard soft top. Anyway, I think I may end up going to a stock rear seat frame, and try to add a little extra padding and match the material to the front seats. I really just want to be able to take a couple grandsons for a ride.





 
61 - 80 of 135 Posts
Top