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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey All,

I'm having problems with the swap of a 95 external slave setup for my 93 internal in an XJ 4.0 . I hope someone has run into this before and can
help me out.

Got the 95 bell and clutch parts, swapped them in and reassembled- jeep won't go into gear. Spent a bunch of time testing and it all
looked right. Finally got fed up and called a shop down the road to look at it.

They thought hydraulic and replaced the slave/ master assembly- still not releasing the clutch. Took it apart and all the work I did on
it checks out. He is as stumped as I am (not a good sign).

It seems that the fork does not go far enough in to engage the clutch fingers. He even took a spare slave push rod I had and extended
it an inch and still no luck. It's got to be in the clutch somewhere.

Anyone run into incompatiblity issues with clutch parts before? I bought a new 95 throwout bearing to go with all the 95 bellhousing
parts. Are there two size forks or pivot bolts in these years perhaps?

If anyone has any ideas of what it might be fire away- regardless of how simple or far fetched, I'm listening. I got to get this thing
back on the road!

Thanks

Johann
 

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What master are you using the 93 or 95?

If they aren't the same pn, is it possible that the pressure output is different?

I'm just starting to look into this as well for the next time the slave goes out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Good points guys, unfortunately I think both check out.

I've used both a 93 and now a 95 master- slave is acuating, just not enough. He can get in almost in gear but not complete release. 95 hydro is a prebled factory assembly. There isn't even a bleed hole on the slave (don't know if I like that or not)

I swapped the bearing retainer when I did the original work. Your aboslutely right about them being different though. The external version has a long nose to serve as a guide for the throwout bearing. Internal the nose is cut off and there is a mounting point for the concentric slave cyl.

Part list for swap is:
Bellhousing
Fork
Fork retaining spring
Pivot Ball (on bell)
Slave
Hose to master
Input bearing retainer
Throwout bearing (get new)
Clutch parts? now questioning the ones I got (95)

Should be simple right? Keep the ideas coming though- the next one could be it!


Thanks,

Johann
 

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Doesn't sound like this is the problem, but I'll offer it up anyway.

I had the same problem on an NV4500 swap. In that case the problem was that even with the clutch fork connected at the outermost position on the threaded rod coming out of the slave cylinder there wasn't enough travel. The solution was just to get a threaded rod about three inches longer which gave it more offset at the start. It's worked great ever since.
 

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You might be on the right track...
My hydro clutch actually takes very little throw to release the clutch ... if ALL the slack is taken out. It's a CJ style though...

Try this ... shove the piston in the slave all the way in ... even if you have to open the bleader valve to get it all the way back.
Then install the longest rod you can possably squeeze into the cup of the fork...
Try using an early '80's four cylinder plastic 'bullet' (see pic) on the all-thread rod end with a pair of nuts to make it adjustable and lock it as to length.
All you need is a sixteenth inch of play ...'rattle' to keep the bearing off the rotating clutch forks. The slave cylinders are supposed to be "self adjusting".
A good, strong return spring to keep the throw out fork snug against the slave's rod and the bearing off the clutch really helps too.
I hope that might help ... <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">



[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Jaffer ]
 

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Sounds like you know what your doing but I will suggest it anyways. You said there was no bleed screw? If you are sure then it may be like the new super duties and they are sopposed to self bleed. If you pump the pedal about fives times will it go into gear. I am just wondering if all the air is out of the system.
 

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the rod length solution is the one that I found worked for me when I was swapping a 435 into my 95 YJ. The salve came with a rod that was too short, wouldn't release the clutch properly, used an old extension I cut down and ground into proper shape to make the rod about 2 inches longer, now it works like a charm - you have to make sure ALL the slack is gone from the rod/fork.

Also, I know for a fact that this will work - a buddy is using my old 95 tranny and b/h in his 92 YJ, bolted up perfect works fine. BUT he took the entire unit - tranny with b/h and all parts attached, and swapped it into his jeep, and is using my (95) master and slave.

Chad
 

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Not sure if you checked this out or not but I have run into this problem when dropping in a V8 into my old FJ and making my own adapter plate.

It seems that the input shaft what just a bit long (about 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch) and it was actually pressing into the crank through the flywheel. An piece of 1/8 sheetmetal cut to match the belhousing fixed the problem.

I will tell you that all of your symptoms sound like all of my old symptoms, but you are not dropping in a new motor or messing with that many clearances Hmmmm. But if you have messed with the longer throws with no luck then you might want to check my problem out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Great problem solving guys- Thanks for the help.

Now that it's apart the shop guy is ordering a new clutch kit to make sure that the critical dimensions are the same. Once we are sure of that I guess we'll look at linkage again.

I went to the junkyard that I bought the conversion parts from and asked them about the problems. They noticed thet the pedal assemblys for the two systems are different PN#. I bought the later assembly and will compare to the one I have to check differences. MUDJOCKY- Do you remember which way the pedal linkage was moved in the case you mentioned? Towards firewall or back of jeep?

If I was swapping in a different engine or tranny I would be inclined to think the rod is too short but everything is stock just a different year. I'll have to look at the slave rod again though, maybe the inch he added wasnt enough. Chad- the swap you did didn't involve the pedal assembly did it? Could you give me more info?

I also thought about fabing a manual fork actuator to test the throw of the fork. I think I could make it out of a threaded rod and a plate to bolt to the slave mounting points. Weld a nut over a hole for the threaded rod to go through to the fork. Drill holes and attach. Screw in until you can get it in gear with the motor running. What do you guys think?

Is there anything else I'm not thinking about? You guys have been a great help


Johann
 

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Mine was a swap of an NP435, 203 reduction box, and early bronco dana 20 into a 95 YJ. I used the b/h from a T176 and had it modified for the crank position sensor, used an AA pilot bushing, and ordered the slave from AA. I used the master from a 92 YJ (guy who owned the 92 took my entire master salve with my b/h and tranny to get the xternal slave), had a new line made to the slave, and used the slave from an iron duke 4 cylinder. I had to lengthen the push rod on the slave. The pedal is a stock 95 pedal.

The write up is here:

http://www.rightcoastcrawler.com/LloydC/tech/TrannyProject.html

The guy who got my OLD stuff swapped a 95 master and slave, b/h, and tranny into a 92 and it worked perfect.


Chad

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: ChadLloyd ]
 

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Originally posted by Johann:
<STRONG>
MUDJOCKY- Do you remember which way the pedal linkage was moved in the case you mentioned? Towards firewall or back of jeep?
Johann</STRONG>
I believe when he hooked everything up the pedal was much taller than the brake pedal and the rod had to be shortend to get the pedal to sit level with the brake and gas pedal.
 
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