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for_by_nut

I think your first example was just as good, IF you lowered the upper link attachment on the axle 2". Check it out.
 

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Yes that's exactly what I am thinking. In theory it sounds like it is close to the same but could have binding issues. I built a model with a wishbone a arm on top and converging lowers and it doesn't seem to bind but that might just be a crappy model. Anyway I appreciate your work and it's nice to have something totally tech. without all the BS.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Re: for_by_nut

KingOf_Pain said:
I think your first example was just as good, IF you lowered the upper link attachment on the axle 2". Check it out.
You naided it!!! Just made that change (dropped the uppers at the axle end to by 2". This gives them an 8" spread while the uppers at the frame end have a 7" spread. AS is 62%, rear steer is 4.1 degrees, axle shift to side is 3.51", and roll axis is 5.3 degrees. I will try to post this one tonight as well. Thank you for the insight!!! This seems to be a great combination of minimizing rear steer and keeping AS low while at the same time keeping the other variables in a reasonable range.
 

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hehe,

Also you might want to bring the lower links at the chassis together some, so they are triangulated equally with the uppers. Now, it will be exactly like mine. :)

Of course, I copied it off one of the guys here after studying up. Seemed like the best compromise to me, plus I made some changes in link length, at Gordons suggestion.
 

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What about double parallel 4 links with trac bars? Radius arm setups? I don't really know much about link setups. But its really cool to see how the different setups change the numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
Mieser: The one I modeled similar to your suggestions is titled "para_uppers_traing_lowers.pdf".

KingOf_Pain: The one modeled per your suggestions (not including your last of moving the lowers at the frame more inboard) is titled "4_link_round_2.pdf". So far I like this one the best (on paper). I am going to also make the mod of moving the lowers inboard more and see how that effects it.

Link is:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/d1/tech/4link/

And click on any one of the pdf files. I need to ask Lance if he can put these on the Pirate site. I'm afraid my free one is going to run out of bandwidth allowance soon.

Feel free to give more ideas and suggestions to try and model. I'm going to try to see if I can create some animations of the movement as well.

Check 'em out.
 

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More ideas

Feel free to give more ideas and suggestions to try and model. I'm going to try to see if I can create some animations of the movement as well.
How about mocking up one of the SNORT setups:

Like the pic of Camo's that was posted but have the links all on one plane at the frame crossmember side - keep the lowers above the axle centerline and raise the uppers to effect at the axle end...

I wouldn't mind seeing two variations of this setup...

One like Camo's where the lowers are triangulated and the uppers are parallel to each other (again all frame mounts in the same plane)

| / \ | (uppers on the outside)

And the other with all four links triangulated and still share a single mounting plane at the x-member

/ \ / \ (uppers on the outside)

You can't mock up some rockwell's too :flipoff2: I have measurements! :rolleyes: Just kidding - unless you really enjoy this stuff and want to?! Thanks

Matt
 

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Slowzuki said:
The only camshaft rule I've seen is 9/10 times people talking about camshaft lift/duration/timing don't know WTF they're talking about!

Seriously though ya gotta look at the distribution of mass. Throwing an external cage on and 44" bogger up top will move the body/frame COG quite a bit. (Regardless of where the camshaft is!)

Ken
the camshaft rule, assumes a largely standard car! (i.e. no external cage, no 44" bogger on the roof, no fat guy with an esky {cooler} full of beers) the assumation is a more standard setup
 

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Discussion Starter #50
BJ On Roids said:
yeah the page is havingt hosting errors!!!

thansk for the link lance!! :D
What trouble are you having? I was able to bring them all up just now without a problem.

wanderingwillys: I will try to work the setups you suggested this weekend. Should be able to post something on them Monday evening.

This model really DOES make it easy to see how different setups react and how they all vary. Granted, real life is going to be somewhat different, but should be pretty close. And you would expect them all to behave differently in real life just as you see them here acting differently.

Maybe we should put names and/or rig names to each of these setups. Can anyone decifer one from another and give a real life example of someone running something like that?
 

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four_by_nut said:
[Feel free to give more ideas and suggestions to try and model. I'm going to try to see if I can create some animations of the movement as well.

[/B]
How about the same link design as the first one but using a Mog portal axle :D

Tass
 

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four_by_nut said:
Mieser:

Feel free to give more ideas and suggestions to try and model. I'm going to try to see if I can create some animations of the movement as well.

Check 'em out.

If you can put some animation to these I would really like that. I always understand things better if I can see it work. I would love to go coils or coilovers on my truck some day. I'm reading as much as I can about building a link set up,since I've never done it, so I can try and learn. For some reason though I keep thinking of the set up that Scott (Rockstomper) runs. It seems like that set up works well and might be easier to build. But then again I don't know cuz I've never done it and want to learn how to build a good set up.
 

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Thanks on the drawings... I am also working on a set of drawings but on paper, ther are very simlar to your "XX", I also would like to keep about 100" of WB . When I get some time (right now working too much OT) I have some cheap heim joints & misc scrap Im going to "dummy" up my 4 link XX set up & see how everything works out.
Keep up the good work!:D
 

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four_by_nut said:


wanderingwillys: I will try to work the setups you suggested this weekend. Should be able to post something on them Monday evening.

This model really DOES make it easy to see how different setups react and how they all vary. Granted, real life is going to be somewhat different, but should be pretty close. And you would expect them all to behave differently in real life just as you see them here acting differently.

Maybe we should put names and/or rig names to each of these setups. Can anyone decifer one from another and give a real life example of someone running something like that?
Thanks Jay!


Matt
 

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Discussion Starter #55
wanderingwillys said:


Thanks Jay!


Matt
I started to try to put in the ideas you had but realized I did not quite understand exactly what you meant. Anyway you could do a MS paint picture or something of what you were saying. This would help me to make sure I understand it better. Or maybe try to explain it a little more clearly and in detail.

All: I am working on an animation of the motion. should have it soon.
 

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well i think i can safely say you are one of the best fawkin newbies we have had in a long time. thanks man, and welcome newbie:flipoff2:
 

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Discussion Starter #57
gunracer1 said:
well i think i can safely say you are one of the best fawkin newbies we have had in a long time. thanks man, and welcome newbie:flipoff2:
DAMN!!! That's one HELL of an accomplishment/compliment coming from someone on this board. Especially from someone with over 1800 posts!!! I'll have to try to live up to the billing.:D

I will try to keep working it. But offline I am getting BARAGED (spelling?) with people wanting me to try this and that. I've got more requests than time.

I want to try running wanderwillys idea though. It sounds interesting and WAY different. Just need some clarification on the setup.

Now...........if only I can find that damned link on "How to do an SOA"!! :rolleyes:
 

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I would think that wanderingwillys set-ups would both have really high anti-squat numbers.

I am guessing that in the same plane means mounted at zero distance apart vertically. This would be the same as the 'converging link' pdf already posted.

I can get ProE on some of the lab computers on campus. I am going to try to learn how to model this out for my suspension on the buggy.

With the arms even more level at ride height while having an equal 8" of up and downtravel at the axle should make the rear steering numbers go down and the antisquat go down a little too while climbing.

cool post
 

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I am guessing that in the same plane means mounted at zero distance apart vertically. This would be the same as the 'converging link' pdf already posted.
No. In the "same plane" means that, from the side view, the uppers and lowers are parallel.

With the arms even more level at ride height while having an equal 8" of up and downtravel at the axle should make the rear steering numbers go down and the antisquat go down a little too while climbing.
Antisquat depends on your instant center's position relative to the CG of the vehilce. Since the instant-center is determined by the link angles, you're correct... sort of.
 

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ok....So the links are parallel. That makes more sense. My bad.


On my buggy suspension I ended up going with the most simple system that would fit in the space required. Also, the suspension is the most neutral I can make it. The links are parallel while looking sideways, they are the same length looking sideways, mounting distance is the same on the chassis and axle, and they are as level as I can get them.

Simple things for simple minds I guess. Once I started trying to change things around too much I just gave myself a headache :D
 
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