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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok vendors, the ball is in your court. ... I think and I am sure others will agree it's time to start producing 300m axleshafts. We need them for our dana 44 and 60 front axles. So far we can break all the other alloy shafts available. Since we've got the 300m ujoints, our axles became junk. We need a matching strength axles. They are axpensive...I'll pay for a set. For the mellow driver, this would allow a dana44 to handle 39.5's, almost happily. 40's and taller and throttle jockies still need them for the 60 front. Come on, give 'em up! With a 35 spline thruout front axle with 300m shafts breakage would be a slim chance for a higher % of us wheelers, and 39's on a dana 44 would offer killer ground clearance. Am I high, or is the time for these overdue??! <IMG SRC="smilies/fj.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">
 

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Don't forget about your brakes. Even if you make an indestructible axle shaft for a D44 that can hold up to 39.5's, odds are your brakes won't be up to the task.

--Rob
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Salute to the newby!!! I run 38's and my 4 wheel disc brake rig will stop on a dime! <IMG SRC="smilies/fj.gif" border="0">
 

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Ditto <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">
 

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I know about the joints.....but I thought I heard someone mention that they have 300M 35 Spline Dana 60 Stub Shafts as well. Maybe I was wrong <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">
 

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Huh... so this is a blank check offer?

Man, if u-joints cost $300, think about what axle blanks would cost, just for materials!

Also, factor in process differences... CTM mills the u-joints out of billet. This allow is pretty pricey, but can you see turning an axle down out of billet? That's a pretty expensive pile of waste, and HOURS of machine time... And if you wanna forge some blanks out of this alloy, that process is WAY expensive, unless you can spread it across about ten thousand units.

I don't think you know what you are volunteering to buy... these axles will completely break most peoples' banks...

But if you have a blank check to pay for development... <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Randii
 

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Originally posted by randii:
<STRONG>Huh... so this is a blank check offer?

Man, if u-joints cost $300, think about what axle blanks would cost, just for materials!

</STRONG>
Let's not forget the new 300M R&P gears you'll need.. or will we all be running 3.07s in our '44s so the gears hold up?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
nope, it's not an open check book offer. But... if avalanche gets $10000 for a complete axle how much could a shaft cost? do you think they make no profit on these things?? BTW theirs are 40 spline and I'd but from them, but I don't want a spool in my frontend or do you not understand the front spool thing??? <IMG SRC="smilies/fj.gif" border="0">
 

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the Dana 60 300m Ujoint are 375 bucks Each!! <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

Fawk that you can keep them!!!


Adam,,,,
 

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Originally posted by Aggro:
<STRONG>, but I don't want a spool in my frontend or do you not understand the front spool thing??? <IMG SRC="smilies/fj.gif" border="0"></STRONG>
ARB will make a 40 spline Locker if the demand is high there Was a post about this!! a while back!

Adam,,,
 

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300M isn't magic. in an axle shaft application it is maybe 5-10% better than 4340 in terms of fatigue resistance, assuming both are hardened for optimal fatigue properties. In terms of R&P the 8620 that dana uses is a better choice than 300M. I mean if you have a money tree it would be cool to wheel a totally optimized buggy that was built like a satelite where everything was made of the best material for the loading conditions regardless of cost. But the truth is everything has a point where it will break and until we find it, we will push our rigs harder and harder. It's nice if the parts that we are breaking are a reasonable cost to replace, and in general that means not custom. Good old OE spicer drivetrain parts are generally the most cost effective, just like Ant said.
 

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Originally posted by Rock Toy:
<STRONG>Doesn't CTM already offer 300M Axles?</STRONG>
I just got off the phone with Jack graef of CTM. They only make the joints from 300M.
He does do some custom axle chromoloy axle shafts.
By the way, his price on the joints, will be significantly lower than what you read in the magazines. He said that he quoted those prices to the magazines months ago when he was machining each set by hand.
Right now it looks like the price for the 44 joints will be about $150 each or $300 a set.
Thats not a bad price at all if you consider that they are the baddest U joints available, and you will no longer be shreading a set of shafts each time they a joint lets go.
The CTM joints when used with Chromoloy shafts, should be able to easily handle 39" tires, and agressive driving, Jack says they are holding up well in competition.
I will let you know how well they hold up to my rigs 300hp/340 ft/lbs, and 140:1 ratio, at CalRocs, as Jack is supplying a set, to our team for the competition. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
It should be a good test, my Jeep is on a steady diet of 297X joints and shafts.
 

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Originally posted by H8monday:
<STRONG>I just got off the phone with Jack graef of CTM. They only make the joints from 300M.
He does do some custom axle chromoloy axle shafts.
By the way, his price on the joints, will be significantly lower than what you read in the magazines. He said that he quoted those prices to the magazines months ago when he was machining each set by hand.
Right now it looks like the price for the 44 joints will be about $150 each or $300 a set.
Thats not a bad price at all if you consider that they are the baddest U joints available, and you will no longer be shreading a set of shafts each time they a joint lets go.
The CTM joints when used with Chromoloy shafts, should be able to easily handle 39" tires, and agressive driving, Jack says they are holding up well in competition.
I will let you know how well they hold up to my rigs 300hp/340 ft/lbs, and 140:1 ratio, at CalRocs, as Jack is supplying a set, to our team for the competition. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
It should be a good test, my Jeep is on a steady diet of 297X joints and shafts.</STRONG>
I sold my entire D44 for $175...

Squash
 

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This was up for debate not too long ago. And as I recall the gist of it was "What do you want to break next". Seriously if the axle joint is no longer one of the weaker points what's next R&P's, Carriers, Housing, Drive shaft. A 40 spline ARB, can the internals of the ARB hold up to that? You just keep moving up the food chain, until you're eating T-cases, trannies, and crank shafts. I am all for going to a 60, with alloy shafts, and a stronger joint, but not at the cost of the other parts that are more difficult and expensive to replace. The guys competing can afford to replace the axle, with a full support crew standing by. Maybe I'm way off base here.

Joe
 

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I dont know that the diff is in that much peril. I think there is enough of a gap in strength, that the U joint can be made to withstand most abuse, and still have a margin of reliability, with the balance of the axle components.
I could be wrong though, I guess thats what testing is all about.
There is very little chance of the U joints, causing T case, or tranny breakage, in my case. In any case, I would consider that a T case, tranny issue that needed to be addressed.
I realize a D60 is the way to go, and I plan on swapping one in this winter, but with a competition only a few weeks away, and the D44 U joints, the only link in the drive train that is not holding up, I was all over, Jack's offer to supply our team with his joints.
He is very confident with their strength,...so am I.
Hopefully I wont shower the crowd with R&P and ARB parts.
<IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">
 

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Originally posted by jdjanda:
<STRONG>Seriously if the axle joint is no longer one of the weaker points what's next R&P's, Carriers, Housing, Drive shaft. You just keep moving up the food chain, until you're eating T-cases, trannies, and crank shafts.</STRONG>
I've broken Dana 20 'cases - ripped the mounting tabs right off it - and that WASN'T one of the (couple) times I pogo'd on the front driveshaft because the front suspension failed. That was just too much right foot and side-stepping the clutch. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

We had a guy come on a trail ride with us. Amazingly, a tall but "properly" built Chevy pickup. X-over steering, D60 front/14-bolt out back, Detroits, 44" Boggers, flatbed.. SM465, NP205.

All the good stuff.

He got into a mud "trench" and the Boggers got sideways. he was in the process of NOT treading lightly <IMG SRC="smilies/flipoff.gif" border="0"> and showing off. Truck stopped going forward because the tires were turned.

Solution? Hint: it's NOT "Look out window and straighten tires".. it was.. MORE RIGHT FOOT.

He had a freshly built BLOWN 396 BBC under the hood.

We were all watching as he gave it more go-pedal and then we all heard the BANG.. he kept trying.. motor sounded great, but axles no-turney.

Not a axle joint. Not a driveshaft joint.

He fragged the mainshaft in the SM465!! <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

Now we were ~50 miles from town in the mountains with a stuck Chevy on 44s. He had NO attachment points ("I've never gotten stuck before.."), and no power to the wheels.

The next biggest rig ('79 Bronco, 460, 36" Buckshots) had to tow this monster down the trail. Once we got to pavement, another guy rope-towed the Chevy back to town.. a '74 EB with a 351W & 33" Buckshots and a 20' or 30' strap to the Chevy.. the Chevy driver could only see the whip antenna of the Bronco!

The guy had all the right parts. Isn't an SM465 "bullet-proof"? Not like it was a worn out original unit - he'd had it overhauled at a tranny shop recently (and no, they didn't warranty it! They laughed him out of the shop..)

Broken axle joints are a pain, but 2wd can "fix" the problem and still get you home.. broken driveshafts can be worked around.. even ONE blown R&P isn't going to completely ruin the day..

But a blown main-shaft in your bullet-proof transmission? FAWKED.
 

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But a blown main-shaft in your bullet-proof transmission? FAWKED.
Interesting story...but as you pointed out, the "weak link" in this guys truck was NOT the 465, but the catastrophic lack of driving skill/knowledge. No way you can build anything to withstand serious stupidity/ego.

I think H* is right...the key to the argument is knowing the "gaps" in strength between the various lnks as you "move up the chain".

Sure, you can always break something...but can you upgrade the weak points till you reach a stage where your driving style/skill fits and you survice most, if not all situations?

What i mean is, if you strengthen shafts and joints...what's next? Say hubs or R&P.....they may be next, but comfortably on the "other side" of where you stop and think before mashing the loud pedal more.

Knowing the gaps, and knowing where your threshold fits...THAT's the key IMHO, whether yu're talking D30 or 5 ton Rockwells or whatever.
 
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