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Discussion Starter #1
I had this little adventure (see below) with my new Warn 16.5TI and came to the conclusion I probably ought to go ahead and upgrade the batteries now.

What's the consensus on the OPTIMA® Batteries 8014-045 D34/78 YELLOWTOP® Starting & Deep Cycle?
Is it really worth $200? (of course, I need 2x of them, so $400!)

Is there a more appropriate battery on the market?

A vendor I should support?

Thanks in advance.


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A few years ago this giant oak tree was casting a shadow on the pool, so I figure why not hire a tree guy to 'prune' it.
Well, butcher was close to the truth, then after another haircut to trim it up it...died. So sad, so sorry.

Anyway, what to do with said giant dead oak tree? Chainsaw time. :cheers:
Here's the youtube of it coming down. Cutting down a big Oak Tree - YouTube

Then we chopped it up but saved some of the bigger pieces to carve benches and chairs (again with the chainsaw.) The biggest of which I figured I'd drag over to a nice flat concrete pad I had to work on it. We latched onto it with the truck and it was a no-go. Wouldn't budge. Snapped a few chains before we came to the conclusion it was still too big. So we worked those little chainsaws and made even smaller chunks of giant tree.

Now it is time for the Superduty and the winch to get a workout.


Hauling cable. I have a synthetic upgrade in the shop :)


Hooked up and ready to pull


I definitely underestimated even the size of what was left of this log. Dang thing is HEAVY. Truck can't pull it, but if I dig in, set the brakes and winch it'll drag the log. I will note that sustained hard pulls like this will require a high idle, I dragged it a good 60' with the winch.
Some video Superduty with SuperArmor and a Warn winch moving a huge log - YouTube


Once I got it up out of the main yard I hooked up my trusty 3"x30 strap and launched the truck into the traces again, with a good launch I was able to get the log moving and managed to drag it over near the concrete pad. I had a little trouble getting it maneuvered in between the trees and ended up having to re-position a couple times and winch it back into a path it could take.
SuperArmor & Ford Superduty VS Giant Log - YouTube
The sound you hear at the end of this video is the strap snapping when I gave it a 10' run. And that was the end of that fun.
Turned around, hooked up the winch and proceeded to drag the truck. OK, then, not going that way.

Back with the winch to maneuver the log off the chain and position it so I can cut it's base. Once I do that I'll roll it again with the winch up on the pad.


The Superduty did it's job today and worked hard. I really like this wireless controller too.


Then we went downtown Greenville for dinner.
 

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A $60 Costco battery is better than an Optima. There is a 30,000,000 page thread in the electrical forum on Optima altenatives. Look there. Your best bet are Sears Diehard Platinums.
 

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In your application with a correctly working electrical system it doesn't matter. Pick whichever AGM has an exact fit for your application, size and lug location. Then make sure the battery is not low on voltage off the shelf.
 

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If you are trying to add reserve capacity, you'll want to run the largest format deep cycle batteries for the space you have to work with. Group 31s are going to be the largest common application, without getting into stuff like 4D and 8D RV batteries.


-Hans
 

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Odyssey is the best. All I use in my vehicles
Craftsman platinum are the same batteries.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
OK, was looking at the 65 class sears platinum battery. Still spendy...
You are saying the 31 will fit and has more power?


Why a snatch block? It was pulling it just fine.
 

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That is one FUGLY bullbar :flipoff2:

Use two decent marine batteries, they'll sustain a high pull for a lot longer.
 

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Consider the fact it has an awesome warranty and can be exchanged at any sears vs Optima FUCK YOU warranty.
 

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You are saying the 31 will fit and has more power?
What I'm saying is that the group 31 is going to be the largest commonly available battery of that style, with the highest reserve capacity, short of something like a 4D or 8D RV battery.

What you are looking at are all 12V automotive/marine style batteries. Assuming that the battery has the necessary AH rating to support the current draw of the winch motor, it's not about "having more power". What the larger batteries do is give you increased reserve capacity if you run the winch a lot, or for extended periods of time.

When you use the winch, it draws current beyond what the alternator can produce. Because of this, the batteries have to provide the extra current that the winch motor demands. The bigger the batteries you use (and/or more of them wired together in parallel), the longer you will be able to run the winch without completely discharging the batteries. When you stop winching and reduce the load on the electrical system, the alternator will charge the batteries back up so that they are ready the next time you need to use the winch.

There's no black magic when it comes to automotive batteries. The larger the physical size of the battery, the more reserve capacity it is going to have (meaning the longer you can run the winch without draining the battery).

Therefore, assuming you don't mind doing a little bit of fab work to mount the batteries and hold them in place, you simply measure the available space that you have to work with, then look at the external dimensions of the batteries, and use the largest batteries that fit in that space.

External dimensions of a group 31 are approx. 13"L x 7"W X 9.5"H. It may or may not fit where you want it to. The only semi-common batteries of that style that are bigger are 4D and 8D RV batteries, which are huge and stupid heavy, and would have to be mounted remotely.

Bottom line, unless you plan on going to larger (or more) batteries, replacing what you currently have in the truck now isn't going to accomplish much of anything, other than waste money.


-Hans
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hey, thanks for the info.

Do you know what makes the marine battery more tolerant to deep discharges? This would seem like a big advantage in the winching scenario.

Sadly going by your dimensions the group 31 will not fit in the SuperDuty with out some major chopping. Most of which would be chopping out the part the battery box needs to be strong. I think there would be hood clearance issues too.

So...back to a 65 I guess. I can't see spending $500 on on those Platinum ones either, if I were winching every day maybe, but, meh. I'm beginning to think a normal size batt would work just fine. The stock motorcraft ones are messy, 3yrs old. It's time for a nice sealed battery in my truck.

Suggestions in the 'normal human' range for battery?

Something in this pricerange maybe
NAPA AUTO PARTS
 

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Do you know what makes the marine battery more tolerant to deep discharges? This would seem like a big advantage in the winching scenario.
When a battery is listed as "deep cycle", it means that it uses a design that attempts to keep voltage as stable as possible up to the point of being fully discharged. The idea is that the voltage tapers off slowly, for the majority of the reserve capacity, then suddenly drops like a rock when approaching 100% discharge. Compared to conventional batteries, they are also much more tolerant to being deeply discharged and then recharged again (aka "cycled"). Often, these types of batteries use some type of "Dry Cell" technology, such as AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) or Gel. Because they are designed to run loads for extended periods of time, the capacity of these batteries is expressed in "AH", which stands for "Amp-Hours", and denotes approximately how long (in hours) it would take to discharge the battery if a one amp draw was applied to the battery continuously.

When a battery is listed as "marine", it usually means that it has corrosion resistant, wing-nut style terminals on the top (as opposed to the typical automotive style top or side post terminals). Most "marine" batteries are "deep cycle" design. Typically, the only difference between "Brand X's" batteries advertised as "deep cycle" and "marine" are the terminals.

Conventional "starting" batteries, on the other hand, are designed differently. They are engineered to provide short bursts of current, as opposed to being used for extended periods of time to power accessories. Because of this, instead of being rated in "AH", starting batteries are rated in "CA" (Cranking-Amps), and "CCA" (Cold Cranking-Amps), which denote the maximum burst current that the battery is designed to safely supply for a short period of time. For a given size, starting batteries tend to provide more immediate voltage, but if used for any extended period of time, the voltage begins to fall off much more rapidly than would a "deep cycle" style of battery. They also do not take kindly to being deeply discharged, and if ran down below a certain voltage, will often refuse to take a charge. Almost all automotive starting batteries are wet cell, and have either SAE style top or side posts. (A few have screw-top posts as well, but it's not very common).

It's not that a conventional starting battery won't get the job done (which you know, they're what you have in there right now)... but for stuff like extended heavy winching, "deep cycle" batteries are definitely going to be the better choice if you're looking to upgrade.


-Hans
 
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