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Since the growth of King Of The Hammers and every one wanting to go faster............
Could a leaf spring rig be built to go as fast as a link an coil rig? unlimited budget, unlimited design, any shock etc.

Yes they would have same engine, gear ratios, tire size etc.

many say "it can be done", many say NO WAY.

This has ben a serious debate with many, what do you think?
 

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I say a super tuned leaf pack and bypass shocks and airbumps would let it go just as fast. Maybe not handle as crispy, but allow it to move fast. Look at Ben Swain doing XXRA in the Raisin.
 

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Not just NO, but hell no...... If leaf rigs could be made to run as good as a linked rig, then why don't we see more leaf rigs in top spots?


:stirthepot:
 

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hmmmmmmmmmmm I think bottom line is that you cannot get enough vertical wheel travel out of a leaf sprung setup. I consider mine to be a pretty fast setup, but the overall vertical travel is not there. I use every bit of my 14" shocks for articulation but only about 10" of vertical travel. Custom Alcans, 2.5" FOA's w/ resi, 2.5" FOA 4" bumps, quad wrap limit straps
 

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Also with links if built correctly you can fine tune the suspenion to your needs.
 

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The big thing in my mind is axle location. With leafs, your wheel base is changing dependent on bump or droop.

Links.
 

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The big thing in my mind is axle location. With leafs, your wheel base is changing dependent on bump or droop.

Links.
But there are situations when that can help you.
 

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But there are situations when that can help you.
I'll take the predictability and power transfer of links over shackle based leaf springs any day.
 

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fundamentally I like the "give" of a leaf/shackle setup when hitting a bump, but as I said earlier there are other downfalls. Something like walker's original link setup on the s-10 may work with todays trend in crawling/speed
 

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I'm not one to give judgement one way or another but can speak from my trails and errors. What I do know is that if budget and designe are not an issue then 4-link front and rear (3-link front and 4-link rear if you have x-over steer) is the way you want to go. Leafs are typically use on budget builds and I know that I have bent, tweaked, snapped, etc. and tryed a lot of different ideas with leafs and gained very little. I don't know any thing about coil overs but I love air shox. Basicly what used to be an extreme obstical on leafs is now a cake walk with links and 18" air shox, 48" links or longer works best and air shox can be tuned to handle in both desert race and rock crawl. Well hope that helps.
 

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Links are faster in the desert, but leafs I believe are faster in the rocks. I was in KOH in a Ftoy and the belly on the TrailGear and Marlin Crawler are about 24". The Ftoy guys have learned alot in KOH over the past 3 years entering and finishing. Stand by for 2010. I think the Ftoys will be contenders.:p
 

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Since the growth of King Of The Hammers and every one wanting to go faster............
Could a leaf spring rig be built to go as fast as a link an coil rig? unlimited budget, unlimited design, any shock etc.

Yes they would have same engine, gear ratios, tire size etc.

many say "it can be done", many say NO WAY.

This has ben a serious debate with many, what do you think?
Knowing what we ran, and actual travel numbers, a linked rig, built/tuned right should be faster than a leaf rig. ASSUMING the same drivetrain. I say that because a rig with horrible sprung/unsprung is going to get thrown around regardless of shock tuning, whereas someone with less travel, but better sprung/unsprung will be staying on the ground more.

FWIW, we're pushing at 10" vertical in the front and 12-13" in the rear on our ftoy. We had enough motor to out drive the suspension, since we were running off the shelf 5150's They just quit doing much after getting nice and toasty. We did get to see plenty of busted up link suspensions scattered all about though.

I think it comes down to what you want to build, as the difference in top speed is going to be pretty slim between identical rigs with different suspensions.
 

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Links are faster in the desert, but leafs I believe are faster in the rocks. I was in KOH in a Ftoy and the belly on the TrailGear and Marlin Crawler are about 24". The Ftoy guys have learned alot in KOH over the past 3 years entering and finishing. Stand by for 2009. I think the Ftoys will be contenders.:p
Yeah, if Im running, some bypasses will find their way on and get tuned for this race. And maybe something to help go faster. :evil:
 

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The big thing in my mind is axle location. With leafs, your wheel base is changing dependent on bump or droop.

Links.
maybe i'm not understanding what you're saying, but the same is true for a link suspension. you are changing the angle of the triangle formed by the links, frame, and the imaginary line going from your axle up to the frame. the amount the distance changes is relative to the amount of travel, and the angle of the link at rest. the only exception to this would be a-arm setups where the arm's pivots were parallel to the ground.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I am thinking back to some of the chase trucks and even old class 8 rigs I have seen. some of these are really fast. seriously! and they run leafs in the front. spring under or spring over!

I have owned several sets of leaf spring rigs all with different traits...but it seems when I have had alcans with properly tuned shocks(or close 2) that was night and day difference. Bump stops and limiting straps are a key. to many times guy running leafs for get about the important factors with their over all set up.

Something I have found overall, is shock valving with the proper sping rates no matter what is suspending the rig.

I believe this to be the next great debate with our sport.
 

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i'm no suspension expert, but i believe a leaf sprung setup can be almost as fast as a linked setup. while not as tunable, a leaf setup (shackle in back) does compress with the bumps as the axle moves back. a linked setup goes into the bumps (axle forward) on compression, creating the possibility of a harsher ride. however, with the right spring rate and shock valving this might not even be an issue. i agree that it really comes down to the quality of the spring, spring rate, shock valving, and shock size (stay cool). of course, nice bumps and limit straps help any suspension.

this is definitely an interesting topic, looking forward to seeing where this thread goes... keep it coming guys :smokin:
 

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I remember talking to the guys at T&J performance I think it was. They are the ones who run the fullsize Jeep in JS3. He was telling me that they used to run leafs at all 4 corners and they got it tuned really nice. The only problem was by the end of the race their truck sat 3 or 4 inches lower and the leafs were shot. So yes you probably can run leafs just as fast as links and coils but it will probably cost more in the long run.
 

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great topic.i would think everything being the same,driver, motor blah blah that 4 link or whatever a class 1 car has would be faster.but i think beating some one at koh in a ftoy with leaves would be kick ass.just ask brian ellinger.
 

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The beauty of KOH. It has a diverse track to run on. One of which links do well and another that leafs work well.

I think that leafs can be a contender for sure.......but..... the money is what really talks. Leafs are for the budget, IFS and links are for the non-budget.

So, throwing out the realistic part of the equation, leafs can do it.
 

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great topic.i would think everything being the same,driver, motor blah blah that 4 link or whatever a class 1 car has would be faster.but i think beating some one at koh in a ftoy with leaves would be kick ass.just ask brian ellinger.
Or Hobie or John James. Hobie started 77th and finshed 20th. John started 75th and fiished 21st. Both have ran all 3 KOH races and have always finished. I was riding with Hobie, and we passed alot of nice rigs in the rocks. The pace we were running was really fast,(steady in the desert and fast in the rocks). We had an issue with the rear shocks getting ripped off due to no bump stops. I cant wait till next year cuz both teams have some tricks up there sleave that will be really cool.:D
 
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