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would you be intrested in competing in a toy rig. i am in the process of writing the rules and want some input from you guys.



lets make this an open discussion on competing in a toyota.


i have my ideas that i will share after i get some feed back from you guys.
 

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I'm not sure what you're asking... Are you trying to develop a "Toy only" competition, or are you writing rules for an existing organization and want to factor in the use of Toyotas vs. other rigs? Or do you simply want to discuss the good and bad aspects of using a Toyota for competition use?

I used my '88 Toy p/u for the 2001 and 2002 UROC seasons (Legends Class) and also went to the Supercrawl. I was always very happy with how it performed, and never had any real trouble with any of the vert obstacles due to the front weight bias. However, I have had to become good at pulling out of frontwards rolls because of this. I have always used Toy axles, so turning has always sucked and we broke alot of birfs until Longfields came around. I really like the toy tcase, but the inability to "front dig" cost us alot of points and money to be won. Due to this, our (sorta Toyota based) buggy to be used this season is equipped with a rear driveshaft disconect that Jess at High angle has been working with. Anyway, Toyotas can be every bit as competitive as any other rig, depending on how it';s built and the class you're competing in.
 

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I would like to see some just for fun events for those that can't afford to go run in the big (expensive) events. For those of us that don't own their own company and can't afford hundreds of dollars for entrance fees it would be nice to have events that don't suck up so much money.
 

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Me :D

The biggest challenges I see for a Toy rig are:

No rear axle disconnect, although the fact that Mike and Lance did so well last year without one is encouraging.
I am going to try 4 piston rear calipers, an ARB and line lock solenoids. If that isn’t competitive, I will look a little closer at a Dana 300.

Toyota front axle strength and lack of turning radius. My plan here is inboarding the front springs for tire clearance and clearance grinding the super birfs slightly for
a few more degrees of angle and hydro steering. I hope to get about 32-33 degrees of angle. I would like to know what people are getting out of Danas for steering angle. The front ARB, chomo axle, super birf setup has been holding up pretty well so far, but I am not sure if it will cut it in a competition environment. I guess the next step would be Dana 60.
 

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Camo, are you offering a Toyota for ME to compete in? You shouldn't have; okay I accept! Seriously, how much Toyota needs to be there? Would there be different classes due to wheelbase or tire size? Hmmm, what about a wieght class? How about a Jap vs. USA class?
I'm asking all these questions 'cause not too many people have all Toyota, or Suzuki, or Jeep, etc. If you're gonna make a new thing, why not have it open for all who want to play?
 

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I agree with Chris totally,some of these rigs are out of control on cost. No way an average class person can compete with them for any money. Making a class using stock toyota parts, well stock as in no dana 60's v8's or rear steering would allow most hard core rockers to compete with thier build up longfields and double cases and hydro steering against people with not so built up stuff. Kinda like a stock class ,with mods for reliability. Most off roaders could afford with some saving $$$ to purchase these things and compete. Even have a stock class with big tires and gears,stock trans and stock steering.
Not everyone is able to spend the bucks or do the work that many here are capable of . That doesnt mean they dont want to compete and have fun rock crawling.
It;s kinda like drag racing,remember when used to do that cheaply? Well they have stock classes ,mod classes with limitations. But hey still get to race. Ya it aint driving a pro stock camaro at 200+ mph but it gives them a sense of accomplishment to compete and see the latest in technology. That gives a lot of people enough drive to build a hot rod or restore thier own car.
Rock crawling could do the same, different levels of competition,yet prizes in relation to those levels. Build a following to support the sport and the companies that make a livng do work for off-roaders. And even teach people responsable wheel ing so we can get the damn :mad: enviromentalist off our backs..:D

YOu go camo ;)

Gary
 

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zags said:
I hope to get about 32-33 degrees of angle. I would like to know what people are getting out of Danas for steering angle.
Ford D60, unmolested, stock axleshafts, stock steering stops, cranked to normal-ish position, 33 degrees one way, 35 the other (Ackerman difference), with it sitting on my shop floor. Assume Chevy and Dodge to be similar. I believe I can turn the steering stops in a bit without trouble on this one, so maybe get to 36/38 or thereabouts, but probably won't crack the 40 degree mark without risking popping steer joints.
 

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Seems like what some of us weekend "rec" wheelers have been dreamin about, sort of a Jeepspeed type class for rockcrawlers that limits the $$$$$$ put into it for those of us that would kill to compete, but are too poor:D
 

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I would definitely be in. The problem I'm having with competing in the CRCA and Calrocs is the need to have all the sheet metal or as a CRCA official told me - "The silhouette of the vehicle needs to look the same as stock". I think Todd had the same problems.

There is also the rule that technically put a 86 SAS'd in a different class than an 85 with the same suspension.


Is the inaugural event Sunday at the Jambo?
 

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I have to disagree with the “too expensive” statements. Last years RCAA champion Suzuki was a low buck rig built, driven and spotted by some very talented people. That rig can easily be duplicated for under $20k in my garage at home. That’s a national event winning unlimited rig guys, not a limited class vehicle. Compare that to the cost of a competitive vehicle at a NHRA or SCORE national event, or even a late model stock car or IMCA car. Used rigs get sold dirt cheap all of the time. If you want to compete for cheaper, do like our club does. Go buy some cones, set them up and go nuts. Don't expect promoters to set up a national event and try to attract crowds with a bunch of stock rigs climbing little obstacles. I got into rock crawling with the idea of competing at some level, and the costs seem more reasonable than most other motor sports. I compete to win. Second place is just the first looser. Having been around motor sports most of my life, I know you can overcome being under funded and under equipped with a lot of dedication and commitment to win.
 

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Make the rigs be ALL toyota like engine, trans, t-case, axles etc. This would keep total cost for the lower to get into it.

Have a class that has the above plus all sheet metal in tact(hoods, fenders, bed, etc.). Removeable items like doors, glass and tops can be taken off though.
 

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Racing has classes for types of drivers ,contrary to your thinking Zags. There are race courses and types of racing with a range of dificulty level.
"Little obsticle courses" as you call them would get alot of suv drivers out and into learning there vehicles better and they support the sport , how you ask? Well they buy the brush guards at $500 a piece and the big tube light bars and bumpers the the 4x4 retailers make their money on. Winches on jeeps that never see off road,33" tires on a explorer that drives the freeway.
Come on you see that just like me they support the biz,we or i should say you hard core rock crawlers with a dedicated vehicle give them something to shoot for. they want the appearance of off road but can't afford the the expensive stuff we put on ourselves ,or most of the work is done ourselves keeping costs down.
And yes you could build a great rig for $20k and compete with the big boys because driving ability it a major role in this sport. But what about the guys who don't have $20k to put into a rig? I have less than 8k in mine and go plenty of places,i am limited by ifs still because of costs and kids in college prevent me from adding more things.
Don't you think a sportmans class of people who have some mods but not an all out tube chassis with fenders bolted on to similate a toyota want to compete too? I do..but i cant run over those rocks the guys with 40" or 38" tires do ,and with ifs and 35" I am limited to travel but hey if they made a course similar and yet passable like some of the trails we see it would attract more people for sure. More people means mor emoney in purses and deeper down the line as well.
Just think there is an oppertunity to open up the Rock Crawler Sport with extra classes thats all,you have a huge market of off roaders out there get them to the events where an almost stock vehicle climbs over rocks goes up a hill and flexes overs a some small boulders and the will be hooked. Driving a vehicle in 4l ow off road over rocks trails in the mud is a great feeling of freedom and adventure. Yes we have "Clubs" for that but we can also give those clubs a chance to compete.:D

Besides who da thunka Suzuki would beat any toyota...lol :D
 

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Toyofast said:
Make the rigs be ALL toyota like engine, trans, t-case, axles etc. This would keep total cost for the lower to get into it.

Have a class that has the above plus all sheet metal in tact(hoods, fenders, bed, etc.). Removeable items like doors, glass and tops can be taken off though.
Requiring vehicles to run stock sheet metal would actually increase the cost and maintenance of a comp rig considerably. If you want to keep a nice looking rig that will attract sponsors, you would constantly be putting on new front and rear quarters.
 

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GaryGreco ,
So what you are saying is that someone like Big Rich should go through the time labor and expense to plan an event, find sponsors,
and get all the required permits to cater to a group of people who can’t afford a $300.00 entry fee or a hardcore rig? Who therefore probably can’t afford a tow rig or trailer, let alone the traveling costs and time off to attend an event?
The cool thing about rock crawling is that you don’t need a racetrack. Just go out in the desert, find a pile of rocks and have fun. If you want to compete, get some people together and go for it. My point is don’t expect big promoters to get excited about going out of their way to make a class for entry level rigs at national events. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren’t there like three classes this year in Calrocs? What about CRCA?
I personally think the all Toyota comp at the jambo will be fun, but I wouldn’t want to see an all Toyota class in a series. I want to kick some Jeep butt
 

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I would definately be interested in it. Since I can't afford anything and I have to save money for the next UROC event, cuz I didn't have enough funding for my truck. I think an event just for fun would be pretty cool. I'm up for it.
 

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How about a class with no equipment restriction....BUT....it's a claimer class?

That might me interesting.....do I buy the lower gears or just the tires......?

Jay
 

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I agree alot with zags's statements above....on my own note why have an all toy class, that'd be like NASCAR with all FORDS or Chevy's.....Like stated above if you want to compete and don't want to pay then set up some cones and bet some beer with buddies. I am not made of money I built a toy based single seat buggy for under 10k and paid for the comps to be in that level of competition and I don't have that much but I wanted to be there....if you want it bad enough you'll make it happen

And I don't mean to bash on the stock class but the big number of people come to the event and watch the trophy classes. They want to see the technology and rigs that can provide great action. You don't go to a NASCAR race andcomplain about how costly it is to race. Not many of the people would rather watch you in your stock ford taurus over Rusty Wallace....
 

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Discussion Starter #20
ok so what i have in mind is a spec class. it would be based on early year toy chassis with a tube fram thatattaches to the frame. very much like chris geigers rig. the rules would be very strict as to what mods are allowed in an effort to keep cost very low.


right now on paper i am at 5k for a finished rig starting with a 82 short bed truck.


the tube chassis would be purchased from an approved vendor that must be designed to meet saftey and weight criteria. the tube chassis will bolt directly onto the stock frame.

suspension:

stock spring mounts must be used.
stock shock mounts must be used
aftermarket shackles allowed
aftermarket shocks allowed


drive train:

rear
wide style axle allowed
locker allowed
ubolt flip kit allowed


front

drive flanges allowed
longfields allowed
alloy inner axles allowed
locker allowed
axle trus allowed

engine

must be 22r with stock carb and intake manifold
2" lift motor mounts allowed

tranny.

stock tranny only

tcase

low gear allowed
no dual cases or triples
2" t case lift allowed
14mm bolt out put flanges allowed
cross member mods allowed

steeing.

cross over high steering allowed.
must use toyota ifs box
ram assist allowed.

gas tank must remain in stock location

aftermarket seats allowed

ok well that is a start. but basically it would a buggy with strict rules to keep cost down but durability high. i have talked with rich from cal rocs and he has agreed to create a new spec class that would be a low entry fee. ( aprox $ 50 )

so who wants to build one ?

air bag is in the process of desiging the tube chassis and as soon as he gets it done we will build the first one. it would be cool if i can get a few people to build them as well so we have at least 3 rigs at the first event.
 
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