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Discussion Starter #42
I think on 3rd gens you can fit 33s pretty easily, is a better approach worth all the extra work? I would argue no. Unless you are trying to run 35s which are too big for all the IFS components anyway
Already have 33s. Would like 35s. Brian from diamond/fror runs 37s :confused:

I don't see it as that much work. But yes, much easier to just run the 33s. It's more just a curiosity I guess. Same reason I'm messing with the suzuki sidekick I have. It uses a strut though, so a little bit more simple to fuck with. I plan to build a arms for it that will move the tire forward 2-3" and out 2" in order to run T100 cv's
 

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Already have 33s. Would like 35s. Brian from diamond/fror runs 37s :confused:

I don't see it as that much work. But yes, much easier to just run the 33s. It's more just a curiosity I guess. Same reason I'm messing with the suzuki sidekick I have. It uses a strut though, so a little bit more simple to fuck with. I plan to build a arms for it that will move the tire forward 2-3" and out 2" in order to run T100 cv's
Brian also has the 8" front diff and RCVs which is essentially as strong as an upgraded Toyota straight axle. If your plan is to run the 8" diff, I say go for it.

Do it! Would be cool to follow along and potentially copy :flipoff2: Certainly room for IFS in rock crawling :smokin:
 

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Is that the front and that is the same as the first generation Tacoma? I’ve seen a lot of guys run 37‘s with just a coil over, upper a arm and hammer the crap out of the pinch weld. Should be easier to get a 35 on there.
 

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Whatever u do don’t lock the front. Before I swapped mine I had an Aussie locker in the front of my 97 and broke so many cv’s I don’t even remember how many now but it was well into the teens. That was on 35 12.5 15’s and tubbed fenders about 1 inch of lift in the front. I’d love to have another 3rd gen for camping/easier wheeling. I’d leave that fucker bone stock height with a set of coil overs and 255 85 16’s. It would live a long time and go everywhere I’d need it to.
 

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I have a 3rd gen setting here that is taken somewhat apart and is getting more parts robbed off of it. It would be easy enough to space the rack rearward and ratchet strap it to simulate moving the control arms forward to see if the rack is even capable of doing this. While we're talking about this stuff I'm not sure how dependable the transfer case is on them with the push button 4wd torsen case . My daily just broke internal won't disengage lights blinking and some hard clunks. Tested the switches, front diff and case motors. Bone stock 02 sport. From my quick measurements the older case is shorter so drive shafts would need a swap and a switch to engage the add.
 

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I wheel a 97 4runner on 315s(35s). It pretty much follows the Tacoma formula of making 35s fit. Coil overs, upper control arms, small body lift, and firewall mods. I’m locked f/r and have done a good job of making CVs live, just watch wheel spin and be gentle with the skinny pedal. The only CVs I’ve broke have been from the tires spinning then catching traction. So it definitely doable
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Is that the front and that is the same as the first generation Tacoma? I’ve seen a lot of guys run 37‘s with just a coil over, upper a arm and hammer the crap out of the pinch weld. Should be easier to get a 35 on there.
Yes, same front end

Whatever u do don’t lock the front. Before I swapped mine I had an Aussie locker in the front of my 97 and broke so many cv’s I don’t even remember how many now but it was well into the teens. That was on 35 12.5 15’s and tubbed fenders about 1 inch of lift in the front. I’d love to have another 3rd gen for camping/easier wheeling. I’d leave that fucker bone stock height with a set of coil overs and 255 85 16’s. It would live a long time and go everywhere I’d need it to.
I guess I forgot to mention, the plan is for the wife to drive this most of the time. I have the arb for it already, which would only be used when necessary and could be turned off if something is wedged.

I have a 3rd gen setting here that is taken somewhat apart and is getting more parts robbed off of it. It would be easy enough to space the rack rearward and ratchet strap it to simulate moving the control arms forward to see if the rack is even capable of doing this. While we're talking about this stuff I'm not sure how dependable the transfer case is on them with the push button 4wd torsen case . My daily just broke internal won't disengage lights blinking and some hard clunks. Tested the switches, front diff and case motors. Bone stock 02 sport. From my quick measurements the older case is shorter so drive shafts would need a swap and a switch to engage the add.
The newer cases are awd and I've heard can be problematic. Older cases are decently strong from what I've read.

I wheel a 97 4runner on 315s(35s). It pretty much follows the Tacoma formula of making 35s fit. Coil overs, upper control arms, small body lift, and firewall mods. I’m locked f/r and have done a good job of making CVs live, just watch wheel spin and be gentle with the skinny pedal. The only CVs I’ve broke have been from the tires spinning then catching traction. So it definitely doable
Good to know
 

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.

The newer cases are awd and I've heard can be problematic. Older cases are decently strong from what I've read.
Not exactly. SOME 4runners were available with the multi mode tcase... not all, and no tacoma’s. My doublecab is j-pattern, my scab is pushbutton 4-hi and my 4runner is multi mode (04, 04, 02).

I actually want to put a 99-02 4runner dash and multi mode tcase in my doublecab... too lazy, though. 😁
 

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IMO the 8" was a huge step up in strength over the 7.5 and finding a way to make it fit would be a big improvement. Especially the CVs are so much bigger and stronger. They hold up to 35's no problem.

That said - here's my general out line on how I was planning to squeeze 35's in a mostly stock 5th gen setup. Basically just re-welding the ball joint forged end swapped side for side. The result is ~ 1 inch forward relocate. That's the correct direction to fix the caster issue with stock arms. Rather than moving the upper control arm ball joint aft, the lower can move forward.



I would guess a very similar mod would work on your 3rd gen. I think everything else should still fit in the stock location. I haven't had a 3rd gen for a while so I can't remember exactly what they look like. On a 5th gen the aftermarket caster correction UCAs move the ball joint about 22mm. So moving the LCA 1 inch forward should work pretty nicely with OEM uppers or OEM geometry uppers with greater ball joint range of motion.

The only issue I see that could cause a problem is potential interference between the coilover and cv shaft. Might have to modify some on the mount or use different misalignments if you have spherical bearing lower joints on your coilovers.

Adding an inch *should* get you into some 34 or 35" tires depending on tire/wheel/etc.

Or - and I'm completely serious, consider a bracket lift. Most are only about 2.5-3" height, so run them at 3", not 6. And then you'll have better baseline CV and LCA angles. You'll have a lot more available droop too. And they're usually dirt cheap.

A 4th/5th gen bracket lift is the perfect starting point IMO for a conversion to 8" front setup. Then you can bolt on LCAs from a 5th gen, use 5th gen spindles, axles, etc. And I'd guess the UCA's could be modified to fit with just a little bit of effort. The nice thing with this route if you're willing to fabricate is that you can run all stock front parts except the mounting and use the bracket lift as your new mounting points to weld in where you want (like 1 or 1.5" forward and down 1.5"). Then move the upper shock towers to match and you're very little custom fab into a pretty rock solid IFS setup.

Just a few thoughts. Good luck! The more a use it - the more I like my 5th gen setup.
 

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That is a good idea^^^^^. As was under my runner today I got looking at the rack, I don't think it is worth the effort to move spindles forward unless you put the rack in front and make some changes. My thoughts are because the tierods go from the rack now at an angle forward a bit now . So if you were to increase the angle I think there would consistent rack failure due the strain of a hit in the tire will want to push the rack away from mounts. I also have a 2010 and just crawled under it . I see how marlin can move stuff foreward there is enough room to move the rack forward about 2". So the earlier models if you were to put swap sides lca spindles/knuckle that would gain aprox 2.25 in moving forward and put the tie rods in front like the later trucks . Stuff to be fabbed would be uca and mounts for the rack and steering column linkage. Now if you did the rack up front and used 2nd Gen tacoma knuckles, axles(30 spline in and out) ,8" diff you would gain strength and about about 4.5"? In wms to wms. Would have to check the height of spindle and center to center height of control arms so the oe geometry would still work
 

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So I just did some half ass measuring, 3rd gen runner , uca center bolt to lca center bolt 18.25" knuckle height of 21.5 (this is from the castle nut meets surface on upper and lower bjs). Top of frame rail to bottom of tube for uca 5.5".

2nd Gen taco take all the dimensions and add .25" .
So they are pretty damn close for swapping the later model onto older , if that .25" is real critical? Seems like you egg out the alignment cams and beef that area up with something like marlins stiffner.

Don't hold me to these measurements to be exact, but I do have 2 good eyes :flipoff2:
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Not exactly. SOME 4runners were available with the multi mode tcase... not all, and no tacoma’s. My doublecab is j-pattern, my scab is pushbutton 4-hi and my 4runner is multi mode (04, 04, 02).

I actually want to put a 99-02 4runner dash and multi mode tcase in my doublecab... too lazy, though. 😁
OK, *most* of the 00-02 are awd, and have traction control bs.
 

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OK, *most* of the 00-02 are awd, and have traction control bs.
I agree with you, that is kinda what I have come across here. For daily driver's and light off road use they are the tits , but as soon as you get to deep in snow or slick mud the computer don't know jack shit about proper skinny pedal control. My experience is we are going to make it then truck decided to do it's own thing . Let's back up and hit the right button and hope the lights don't flash:laughing:
 

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Discussion Starter #55
IMO the 8" was a huge step up in strength over the 7.5 and finding a way to make it fit would be a big improvement. Especially the CVs are so much bigger and stronger. They hold up to 35's no problem.

I feel like, with an arb carrier, and being hp, the 7.5 shouldn't be the issue. I think the weak point is the little intermediate shafts. I'm not sure about this Gen, but the mini truck rcv's replaced all of it.

8" would be sweet, I believe it actually comes out to be stronger than the mini truck axle (if both are rcv) because the ifs rcv's are dana 60 sized.

That said - here's my general out line on how I was planning to squeeze 35's in a mostly stock 5th gen setup. Basically just re-welding the ball joint forged end swapped side for side. The result is ~ 1 inch forward relocate. That's the correct direction to fix the caster issue with stock arms. Rather than moving the upper control arm ball joint aft, the lower can move forward.



I would guess a very similar mod would work on your 3rd gen. I think everything else should still fit in the stock location. I haven't had a 3rd gen for a while so I can't remember exactly what they look like. On a 5th gen the aftermarket caster correction UCAs move the ball joint about 22mm. So moving the LCA 1 inch forward should work pretty nicely with OEM uppers or OEM geometry uppers with greater ball joint range of motion.

The only issue I see that could cause a problem is potential interference between the coilover and cv shaft. Might have to modify some on the mount or use different misalignments if you have spherical bearing lower joints on your coilovers.

Adding an inch *should* get you into some 34 or 35" tires depending on tire/wheel/etc.

this is pretty much what I was thinking

Or - and I'm completely serious, consider a bracket lift. Most are only about 2.5-3" height, so run them at 3", not 6. And then you'll have better baseline CV and LCA angles. You'll have a lot more available droop too. And they're usually dirt cheap.

A 4th/5th gen bracket lift is the perfect starting point IMO for a conversion to 8" front setup. Then you can bolt on LCAs from a 5th gen, use 5th gen spindles, axles, etc. And I'd guess the UCA's could be modified to fit with just a little bit of effort. The nice thing with this route if you're willing to fabricate is that you can run all stock front parts except the mounting and use the bracket lift as your new mounting points to weld in where you want (like 1 or 1.5" forward and down 1.5"). Then move the upper shock towers to match and you're very little custom fab into a pretty rock solid IFS setup.

Just a few thoughts. Good luck! The more a use it - the more I like my 5th gen setup.
Interesting thoughts for sure. The only thing I don't like about the drop bracket is that you are loosing ~3" of clearance all the way across. One of the few advantages to ifs in rock crawling is the clearance that can be had in the middle.

There is a small chance that I could end up with my neighbors wrecked fj cruiser. Which I actually saw coast down her driveway backwards into a tree :eek: if they don't want to fix it. The diff may end up under this. Or it will be a 3rd if rig for me to mess with :laughing:

That is a good idea^^^^^. As was under my runner today I got looking at the rack, I don't think it is worth the effort to move spindles forward unless you put the rack in front and make some changes. My thoughts are because the tierods go from the rack now at an angle forward a bit now . So if you were to increase the angle I think there would consistent rack failure due the strain of a hit in the tire will want to push the rack away from mounts.

well that's a bummer, I hadn't actually gotten a chance to look under there :homer: the sidekick is almost meant for it since the cv and steering angle back. I'm pretty sure I could go 4" on that one and still be OK.

The other possibility would be to Fab a new lower bj that moves the spindle forward and has a longer arm. Might loose a little steering angle though.....

I also have a 2010 and just crawled under it . I see how marlin can move stuff foreward there is enough room to move the rack forward about 2". So the earlier models if you were to put swap sides lca spindles/knuckle that would gain aprox 2.25 in moving forward and put the tie rods in front like the later trucks . Stuff to be fabbed would be uca and mounts for the rack and steering column linkage. Now if you did the rack up front and used 2nd Gen tacoma knuckles, axles(30 spline in and out) ,8" diff you would gain strength and about about 4.5"? In wms to wms. Would have to check the height of spindle and center to center height of control arms so the oe geometry would still work
Moving the rack around is definitely a can of worms I'm not ready to open yet.

So I just did some half ass measuring, 3rd gen runner , uca center bolt to lca center bolt 18.25" knuckle height of 21.5 (this is from the castle nut meets surface on upper and lower bjs). Top of frame rail to bottom of tube for uca 5.5".

2nd Gen taco take all the dimensions and add .25" .
So they are pretty damn close for swapping the later model onto older , if that .25" is real critical? Seems like you egg out the alignment cams and beef that area up with something like marlins stiffner.

Don't hold me to these measurements to be exact, but I do have 2 good eyes :flipoff2:
Interesting.

There always the frame chop option some of the sidekick/vitara guys have done. Literally chop the frame somewhere just in front of the firewall. Move it forward and down to desired lift and fire wall clearance, then remount engine and radiator, then lengthen drive shaft and steering shaft. :flipoff2:

Again, I think for now I'm just going to run the 33s. Add armor and gears/front locker, peel out :grinpimp:
 

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OK, *most* of the 00-02 are awd, and have traction control bs.
Look up the “Andy mod 2.0.” Very easy to turn off the traction control. About 30 minute project. My 02’s stability control would kick in going around a Friggen curve. Almost cost me a bumper a couple of times. Now it’s all turned off. 😁
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Well a buddy text me today and said I can have the whole front frame cut off of his 3rd gen 4runner. :D

Might use it to mock up some 1" forward arms and see what it does to caster.
 

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Well a buddy text me today and said I can have the whole front frame cut off of his 3rd gen 4runner. :D

Might use it to mock up some 1" forward arms and see what it does to caster.
Was at my cousins shop yesterday and he had a wrecked 2010 f-150 there , looked under and the tre has an offset to it . Probably 1.25", don't know if taper is correct but that could easily be corrected. For this to work you would need to cut the female thread part off and cut the male thread off the toyota with the part thats not threaded. Choose the best size .25 wall dom tubing and grind them to slide in. Weld them up , wouldn't hurt to do a couple plug welds too. Rock auto has a cheapo for just under 20$ could use for a mock up.
 

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I took an 01 4runner 3.4 auto with a 3" lift, 285s, lockrite rear, open front all over southern az, it went anywhere it would fit without body damage.

The only time I broke anything was trying to climb a loose hill on the throttle sawing the wheel back and forth. Something in the front diff broke and seized, had to put it in 2wd to roll down. Never opened it up, just swapped in a good used diff.
 
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