Pirate 4x4 banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,713 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So here is the deal, I'm right in the middle of my SAS and I'm going to run the shackle mount under the frame so I can run a flatter spring ( toy rears ) However I've talked with the guys at FOOTHILL and they say do not do this. I have also heard guys talking about their front caster getting all out of wack. Whats the deal ?? I guess I'll try it, and if I don't like it I can change it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
995 Posts
DRM, Erik Beeb, Eight, Militaryota can't be all wrong!. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> The only thing to be aware of is that you need to drop your front spring hanger, so that your caster doesn't get Fubared. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Oh, and going through the frame is more "professional" <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,491 Posts
Before I did my sas, I measured the difference in spring eye height front to rear of the spring on a stock 85. If I remember right, the rear spring eye was 2" lower than the front. If you stay close to that measurement you wont screw anything up.
Caster is cheap and easy to correct with shims so don't sweat it too much.
 

·
Super Moderator
'82 Scrambler, '14 Rzr
Joined
·
62,007 Posts
There is nothing wrong with mounting the shackle under the frame, as long as that method fits YOUR specific suspension SYSTEM.

Dropping the rear hanger is like adding a longer shackle. It CAN screw with the steering gemoetry if you do not plan for it to be set up that way.

Yes, a dropped rear hanger only makes sense if you drop the front hanger as well.

As for FootHill - perhaps they should stick to what they know and not try to comment on things they do not know about <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
725 Posts
Originally posted by dangerber:
<STRONG>DRM, Erik Beeb, Eight, Militaryota can't be all wrong!. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> The only thing to be aware of is that you need to drop your front spring hanger, so that your caster doesn't get Fubared. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Oh, and going through the frame is more "professional" <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

If I remember right, I think Beeb was thinking about(or wishing he had??) gone through the frame. I am probably gonna go through the frame myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
995 Posts
Originally posted by ToyZilla:
<STRONG>
If I remember right, I think Beeb was thinking about(or wishing he had??) gone through the frame. I am probably gonna go through the frame myself.</STRONG>
He told me that he would like to redo it, and go through the frame. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,568 Posts
DRM, Erik Beeb, Eight, Militaryota can't be all wrong!
D'oh. I'm actually OK agreeing with some of these guys! <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

I run that on my mongrel... it has worked well for years...

Randii
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
Works for me to under the frame and outboarded no problems here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,971 Posts
A longer shackle is going to give you more flex. Putting the shackle in the frame will allow you to use a longer shackle for a given "frame to shackle eye measurement".

To test this I put stock shackles on my truck and put it up on the ramp. Changing the front shackles was the only change made. I went from 1.5" longer shackles to stock shackles. Ramp score went down 50 points.

Yes you can run longer shackles under the frame too but it will make castor problems worse, then a "through the frame setup".
 

·
Super Moderator
'82 Scrambler, '14 Rzr
Joined
·
62,007 Posts
Originally posted by Chris Geiger:
<STRONG>A longer shackle is going to give you more flex. Putting the shackle in the frame will allow you to use a longer shackle for a given "frame to shackle eye measurement".
</STRONG>
Yes, but the through-the-frame method also limits where you can mount the shackle mount, meaning you are pretty much stuck to a small area due to the curve of the frame there.

So for your "longer shackle" theory, I went to "longer springs" and can get just as much flex, and still be able to tune my shackle location and length EXACTLY how I want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,885 Posts
so how far can one get there shackle eye and front hanger eye of the springs out of wack before the castor angle plays a roll in steering and high speed wandering??? for example, a 1 inch drop hanger with a 4 inch longer than stock shackle(through the frame) yields around inch of deviation...just looking into some shackle lift up front... <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,169 Posts
Chris....actually shackle geometry has much more to do with
suspension travel than the length of the shackle does.

That's why you can still get very good travel with stock length
shackles.....if they're setup correctly.

Jay
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
460 Posts
I still think going through the frame is the way to go, unless you are using a spring that is requiring you to move the shackle mount back on the frame. But, there are so many good springs that work great running from the stock location, as far as shackle angle goes, 85 rears included. Reasons for me thinking so: Cleaner look, stronger, less problems with steering geometry. IMOA, through the frame is; more "PROFESSIONAL", and under the frame looks like crap, sorry, thats just how I feel. I dont see any advantages going under the frame, and many by going through the frame. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: GRABBER ]
 

·
Super Moderator
'82 Scrambler, '14 Rzr
Joined
·
62,007 Posts
GRABBER is right... be a sheeple... leave the original thinking and "trying new things" to someone else <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

PS - Grabber - go visit the general chitchat about your new pic under your name <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
643 Posts
Under the frame has been used by many manufacturers for years with no problems. I don't think in any well designed suspension system it cuases problems. But you should set your castor to were it needs to be for your application. If you don't want to do that, reset the castor, make sure you keep it to about were the factory set it. So that means keeping your spring angle the same as the factory. So if you lower the rear you'll have to lower the front an equal amount.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
460 Posts
Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>GRABBER is right... be a sheeple... leave the original thinking and "trying new things" to someone else
</STRONG>
Your right DRM, your just the modern innovator. <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> I'm really just to scared to try anything "new", or "different". <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0"> Someone please help me. <IMG SRC="smilies/shy.gif" border="0"> BAAAAA, BAAAAAA, where did the rest of my flock go? <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
<IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,885 Posts
Originally posted by Mike Knorr:
<STRONG>Under the frame has been used by many manufacturers for years with no problems. I don't think in any well designed suspension system it cuases problems. But you should set your castor to were it needs to be for your application. If you don't want to do that, reset the castor, make sure you keep it to about were the factory set it. So that means keeping your spring angle the same as the factory. So if you lower the rear you'll have to lower the front an equal amount.</STRONG>
so if you go under the frame you need a pretty hefty dropped front hanger to maintain your castor <IMG SRC="smilies/question.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/question.gif" border="0"> i dunno ive seen a lot of 79-85 rigs with no front drop hanger and 2-3 inch longer shackles(or shorter but under the frame), no shims and no high speed wandering??

im just curious cause i wanted to get lift in front with a longer shackle...
 

·
Super Moderator
'82 Scrambler, '14 Rzr
Joined
·
62,007 Posts
Originally posted by GRABBER:
<STRONG>I'm really just to scared to try anything "new", or "different". <IMG SRC="smilies/crybaby2.gif" border="0"> Someone please help me. <IMG SRC="smilies/shy.gif" border="0"> BAAAAA, BAAAAAA, where did the rest of my flock go? <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> </STRONG>
Well - through the frame, 44044's, Chevy's.. sure looks like sheeple material to me <IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,169 Posts
Pros and cons to both……..

Potential under frame points

Can run shorter shackle
Less strain on frame from shackle movement
Less side movement from shorter shackle
Easier to install on SAS
More freedom of mounting
Can use stock shackles
Easier to change later as needed
No shackle travel restrictions (frame)

Or….go the other way and mount the shackle over the frame rail.

Jay
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
643 Posts
If you just drop the rear you are going to add more castor. For most rigs a small amount isn't going to hurt anything. But keep an eye on your pinion angle. Becuase you'll drop that down as well.

Like I said on well designed system it doesn't matter. Tuck your front spring hangers up so they don't hit. Drop your rear ones down to give yourself a little lift. Set your pinion angle so the driveshaft spins with no vibration. Then set your castor so you are not wandering all over the road.

But if you don't want to do it right. Drop the front the same amount you drop the rear. Thats all I am saying.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top