I hope you don't mind aswering more questions here!Stability, ease of adjustment and end cost for all things involved.
Packaging also plays here
Can you get a perfectly stable and supple ride with C/O's? Probably but not a great chance of hitting it on the first shot. Now buy more springs and put a sway bar on.
Can you make a coil over go into hard enough rates to minimize bottoming and get away with no air bump? Probably with a slider stop and a pretty high rated lower spring, and poly's on the shaft.
The ORI is takes care of the stability while still soft in the rates. It also takes care of a lot of the bottoming you would ever experience. Are they the ticket if you want to run all desert. No. Tim from Bent did a good job in the POB thread. For about 90% of trail wheelers (and xrra type racers) they are the best choice for packaging, cost and tuneability. They aren't meant to replace a coil over and bypass. They are great for what they are meant for, all around crawling and wheeling, with high speed stuff mixed in and jumping. In the big whoops you need them to drop out quickly and the lower pressure (that makes them stable) fights drop out. The rebound valving has just had another tweak and they are better again than they were at this, but this is only really relevant in the whoops at REAL speed.
Again, most of you aren't racing Baja. Will they do well in KOH? Richard Gauthier proved twice that they do. We also ran them and were satisfied. Are them meant for that, not as much as a set of c/o's and bypasses, but they both take tuning. These are just crazy easy to tune, pretty much all on the car and with no added expense.
Go to tune a coil over and you have them off the rig and you're spending money on valving and coils.
I don't feel they will ever replace coil overs as they are so versatile, but I do feel that for the guy that can afford coil overs and wants to go out and beat on his junk without months of tuning, they are the best ticket.
The bumpstops actually work very well. On our xrra/KOH car I can take it out and jump it several feet in the air and only hear the clank of the stroke limiter on landing, you don't feel a bottom. In the desert, there were a few times where we wanted bumps on the rear from some really big G outs after a whoops section. Again, they weren't designed with this in mind.
If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask me and I'll do my best to answer, or can most likely go get the answer.
That right there says alot.After watching them perform at Farmington, I would run them were I to build a new buggy.
That is an excellent question to address.
First off, I'm not going to feed you a line of BS because I'm a vendor for ORI trying to sell them. The following is based on my personal experience in tuning shocks and studying suspension. Each type of shock has it's place pending on what your wanting out of your rig... and the ORI's definitely have some cool features that make them the perfect choice for many people.
If someone were to call me wanting a trail rig that rode ultra smooth and stable, a set of ST's would be the first thing I'd recommend. The stability when set up anywhere close to right is awesome, not to mention how smooth they ride. The fact that they are slightly cheaper than a coil over (with springs) helps on budget, especially in the long run of not having multiple sets of extra springs around to help dial the C/O in. Not to mention the expense or packaging around no need for bump stops or sway bars. The average person out there is putting a C/O on there rig with out any tuning on the valving and for the most part guessing on the springs, not seeing anywhere close to the potential the shocks have to offer. Then we read them bitching on here that their "air shock" was better...IMO these offer the average person much more tuning ability without adding that extra cost of buying new springs to experiment with while trying to achieve the ride they are after. Nothing more than a NO2 tank and a gage set up will let you play with the ride quality to your harts content. When the shock is set up according to Marks recommendations, it will not unload like a standard air shock and inspire confidence when off-cambering super nasty ledges... not to mention seemingly float across even the nastiest rocky trails. They inspire you to want to go fast. Making them a perfect choice for the average weekend warrior. Are they as good as a tuned coilover in ride quality... very close.
The fact that they inspire you to go fast does not make them my choice for doing so though. Part of being able to go really fast is a shocks ability to drop out quickly in rebound dampening. Can the ORI's be tuned to do so, absolutely... but when you drop that lower chamber pressure to tune for faster rebound you loose many of the advantages the shock offers in stability, and unloading comes back into play. Essentially back to an expensive air shock, which brings up another point. Not that these are blowing out as they have triple seals, but the idea that they can depressurize be it a seal or shrader will leave you in a bad situation in a race, especially a long one.
For me, it all comes down to what your primary purpose is going to be. I'm not going to say these are the right choice for everything, but for 90% or so of you out there in buggies hitting the woods up every weekend... A set of ORI's would be on your build sheet if you came to me.:grinpimp:
DP3 and ST. The DP3 to start with, is almost $285 more per corner. They are way bigger, have way more going on inside, but just quickly lets say most of it is valving. As the strut senses it is on the low side it goes into harsher valving, meaning it closes half of the compression valving ports on that side to add more stability. Also there is externally adjustable valving on the rebound (as does the ST) AND the compression. I have never put hands on a set of these.I hope you don't mind aswering more questions here!
Can you explain the differences a little more between the DP3 and ST strut?
Where can we find pricing information, just call you?
How do you feel about using it on heavier vehicles. It looks like 1300lb a corner is what it says on the website, but do you agree? The reason for the question is that airshocks say they are good to a cirtain weight, but my experience with them is that they start to really struggle way before you reach the max weight.
Can you, or would you ever run coilovers and Ori's? Meaning coilovers on the front and ori's on the back? Do they operate well together?
Do you have fully compressed demensions available anywhere?
Sorry for all the questions, if you don't want to go into it here I can call you too.
Lou, you're getting into the go fast long distance stuff, yes? We just ran ours (granted, an upper 3xxx lb car) for lots and lots of miles at ludicrous speed in disney on the granite and had no problems.I just sold mine and went to CO's. My rig is very heavy on the front for a racer and I was bottoming them and losing tires/wheels in ludicris stuff. They are a great product for the money but I was overdriving them on occasion ... I would run them on a crawler any day of the week. They are great for faster stuff as well, as long as you are fairly light. They are much more stable than an airshock but the bottoming capabilities/tuning could use a little more.....
Dang, I wish they would have worked out for you. Mark needs to make upper caps with teh option of adjustable compression damping for a few dollars more, huh. :mr-t:Yes long distance mixed high/low speed. A supplemental bump would have helped but I needed more compression and wasn't interested in disassembling these. I was running solid 3" poly bumps with 1" of bump compressing travel and it was not enough coupled with the factory hydro bump circuit. I was concerned hitting anything over 6" tall with an edge @ speed (15mph+). They are a great product just not for me
My rig is 2400# to the ground, on the front tires.
Heavier viscosity oil for the compression damping will fix that.I just sold mine and went to CO's. My rig is very heavy on the front for a racer and I was bottoming them and losing tires/wheels in ludicris stuff. They are a great product for the money but I was overdriving them on occasion ... I would run them on a crawler any day of the week. They are great for faster stuff as well, as long as you are fairly light. They are much more stable than an airshock but the bottoming capabilities/tuning could use a little more.....