[Rerock]

Private sales across state lines are illegal according to the ATF so this law only applies to purchases from FFLs by out-of-state buyers.

Minnesota allows private sales between Minnesota residents without a background check or anything (but most people want to see a permit to purchase or permit to carry to cover their ass). FFLs MUST do a background check and 4473. Additionally, handgun purchases require a permit to purchase or a permit to carry. Evil black rifles also require a PTP/PTC :shaking:, but you can get a long-guns only PTP if you're 18-21. Most police departments (the ones that issue a PTP) don't know that though and will deny you.

Is that true? I can't drive from Minneapolis over to Hudson to meet a guy from Armslist?

Edit: Apparently that is correct according to FAQ #2: http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf

 

[D_JEEPER]

private transfers in VA for VA RESIDENTS must be to another VA RESIDENT per the law. For a FFL, this only applies to handguns. Long guns are ok as long as you have the 2 forms of ID that meet the requirements on the 4473 and state form...so Drivers License and something else with your name and address.

 

[Elvis38]

Is that true? I can't drive from Minneapolis over to Hudson to meet a guy from Armslist?

Edit: Apparently that is correct according to FAQ #2: http://www.atf.gov/files/firearms/industry/0501-firearms-top-10-qas.pdf

It's a bullshit law, i live 10 minutes from Iowa. But refer to my previous post about that.

 

[D_JEEPER]

Actually... it makes perfect sense....and thats as far as the ATF should go.... interstate...not intrastate.

If someone does something inside of a state with a firearm the ATF should have nothing to do with it.

 

[Gozuki]

The so-called gun show loophole is nothing more than a false flag created by anti-2A liars for political purposes.

We can put our heads in the sand all we want but if a felon or restricted person wanted a firearm it is incredible easy at a gun show.

I feel these two statements need repeating. I don't have the answer to #2, but it's far and away more important (IMHO) than #1.

 

[Diesel Smoke]

We can put pur heads in the sand all we want but if a felon or restricted person wanted a firearm it is incredible easy at a gun show.

Not in Oregon, it's just as hard to buy from a dealer as it would be to buy from an individual at a gun show.

 

[D_JEEPER]

True here as well except, you are not required in a FTF to provide ID or a bill of sale. You are required to do your due diligence and use your best judgement.

Thats what I said....

 

[the_experience3006]

Actually... it makes perfect sense....and thats as far as the ATF should go.... interstate...not intrastate.

If someone does something inside of a state with a firearm the ATF should have nothing to do with it.

It actually makes sense to a degree. Different states have vastly different laws that it would be nearly impossible to be sure you are completely a legal sale. And you're right, interstate commerce does fall under the authority of the Feds.

I feel these two statements need repeating. I don't have the answer to #2, but it's far and away more important (IMHO) than #1.

#2 may be true, but practice has shown it to be uncommon. People also self-police fairly well in my experience. Like I said, it's damn near impossible to buy in Minnesota without showing an ID and doing a bill of sale where you attest to not being prohibited or being asked to show a permit to purchase or permit to carry.

"Closing the loophole" might not be so contentious with gun owners if the antis would accept that there ARE other methods of doing it outside of their registration scheme, but they won't allow that because they want the task to be onerous (gotta go through an FFL during business hours for a fee, in person, complete a registration...I mean 4473 form, yada yada).

I have heard the proposal made that there be a 1-800 number that private citizens can call. Use the social of the buyer and simply get a yes or no if they are able to buy. There is no record of a sale actually taking place or what firearm was being talked about, but it would give a seller the confidence to proceed and might discourage people from trying to make illegal purchases.

The antis of course immediately come back with the argument that there is no record of it ever being done and it's unenforceable to which I ask them how they are ever going to enforce the 4473 scheme on firearms made prior to whatever date said legislation is enacted without creating an illegal firearms registry. The usual response is crickets.

 

[aloharover]

FTF sales are what the media is referring to in the " Gunshow Loop hole" verbiage but it sounds better if they get you to think that every sale is that way. They are embellishing by omission.

^This

Nationwide if an FFL holder transfers a firearm there is some form of paperwork. Either a 4473 to a civilian or a copy of the FFL to another dealer. Doesn't matter if it's a gunshow or out of the sotre, there is a paper trail.

In CO even private transactions at a gun show require a 4473, and as of last year ALL private to private transfers require a back ground check.

 

[aloharover]

We can put pur heads in the sand all we want but if a felon or restricted person wanted a firearm it is incredible easy at a gun show.

Not in CO

 

[aloharover]

The so-called gun show loophole is nothing more than a false flag created by anti-2A liars for political purposes.

Huh, sounds like an Assault Weapon

 

[87manche]

We can put pur heads in the sand all we want but if a felon or restricted person wanted a firearm it is incredible easy at a gun show.

as opposed to trolling craigslist/armslist or any other avenues?

if I were a felon I'd avoid a gun show, because of the scrutiny, and roll right onto craigslist.

 

[FrankenToy]

I feel these two statements need repeating. I don't have the answer to #2, but it's far and away more important (IMHO) than #1.

It maybe easier but the criminal will have to pay fair market price at a gun show. Paying for anything is anathema to criminal behavior. The statistics show that criminals DON'T pay for stuff that they can steal (less than 1%, right?). Criminals are lazy hominids and almost always will follow the path of least resistance and that path doesn't include gun shows. The gun show loophole is a farcical issue. The only experience I have with criminals/people who shouldn't be buying guns from a gun show is when the local gun hating sheriff (Adams County) paid people to buy guns to "prove" the non-existent gun show loophole. My opinion.

 

[Mudinyeri]

We can put pur heads in the sand all we want but if a felon or restricted person wanted a firearm it is incredible easy at a gun show.

According to felons (Bureau of Justice Statistics study of 18,000 federal prisoners), it's much easier to get guns "from friends or family members", off the street, "from a black market source", "from a pawn shop", "from a victim" or "in a burglary".

 

[Mudinyeri]

Huh, sounds like an Assault Weapon

Indeed.

 

[bigdummy30]

I really wish something real world could be developed so we can move on to fixing all the nut jobs in this country. It seems they want a fee attached to everything and that's where I draw the line. In MD. I have to buy a HQL just to purchase a handgun. Its a one time fee and I'm grandfathered in because i owned a handgun prior to the law but newbys have to plunk down almost $150 just to be able to purchase a handgun.....that they can't even carry on them. I never understood making it harder on legal people while never changing any avenues that a criminal would take.:shaking:

 

[87manche]

I really wish something real world could be developed so we can move on to fixing all the nut jobs in this country. It seems they want a fee attached to everything and that's where I draw the line. In MD. I have to buy a HQL just to purchase a handgun. Its a one time fee and I'm grandfathered in because i owned a handgun prior to the law but newbys have to plunk down almost $150 just to be able to purchase a handgun.....that they can't even carry on them. I never understood making it harder on legal people while never changing any avenues that a criminal would take.:shaking:

because it's all about gaining more power.

if you got rid of what the populace was scared of, how could you scare them into giving you more power over their lives?

 

[BATFE]

I actively seek out felons to do face to face transfers with, and if no one will buy my goods I just give them away to known felons. :FANGERS:

 

[IEATRKS84]

It maybe easier but the criminal will have to pay fair market price at a gun show. Paying for anything is anathema to criminal behavior. The statistics show that criminals DON'T pay for stuff that they can steal (less than 1%, right?). Criminals are lazy hominids and almost always will follow the path of least resistance and that path doesn't include gun shows. The gun show loophole is a farcical issue. The only experience I have with criminals/people who shouldn't be buying guns from a gun show is when the local gun hating sheriff (Adams County) paid people to buy guns to "prove" the non-existent gun show loophole. My opinion.

I dont have issues with felons crowding my table since my wares are like a fine wine and attract a different crowd. But other dealers do complain about this scenario (take what undertones you like);

FFL table with 4473: Hipoint fo-tay for $120
"Personal collection" table: hi point fo-tay $200

The $200 FTF hi point will sell quicker and almost immediately.

According to felons (Bureau of Justice Statistics study of 18,000 federal prisoners), it's much easier to get guns "from friends or family members", off the street, "from a black market source", "from a pawn shop", "from a victim" or "in a burglary".

Actually I read somewhere that 80% of firearms used in a crime are stolen.


Now I'm not saying all FTF sales should have a BG check. I don't even think all dealers at gun shows should be FFLs. But let's not kid ourselves.

 

[83toyota81]

I dont have issues with felons crowding my table since my wares are like a fine wine and attract a different crowd. But other dealers do complain about this scenario (take what undertones you like);

FFL table with 4473: Hipoint fo-tay for $120
"Personal collection" table: hi point fo-tay $200

The $200 FTF hi point will sell quicker and almost immediately.



Actually I read somewhere that 80% of firearms used in a crime are stolen.


Now I'm not saying all FTF sales should have a BG check. I don't even think all dealers at gun shows should be FFLs. But let's not kid ourselves.

I'm not a criminal and I can legally own firearms, and I would pay a little more for a ftf transfer than doing the 4473 and all. 80 bucks? Nope, but 20-30 more for sure.