[Troop 2865]

Your work is awe inspiring. I have always wished I could just work with someone with your level of skills and learn.

Congratulations on the new purchase. Looks like a great project just getting better.

 

[CJ3BL]

More windshield frame repair...Yikes!

Thanks Troop 2865! Very nice of you! I'm self taught from reading stuff here and in car mags. Just learning as I go. Feel free to post questions or PM me with any questions and I'll help where I can!

I was surprised to see that PhotoBucket turned off my photos posted here. Kind of a drag to get things working nicely then have all my photos that are posted here get turned off with no notice. I decided to fork over the cash to pay for a subscription that allows hosting to third party sites like here, as I don't relish the idea of moving them to another site and relinking every post. Not too happy about it though...

Finished filling all of the various drilled holes. Glad that's done!

The front panel of the windshield frame was also lifting away from the rectangular tube frame in several areas due to failed spot welds. I used some crocus cloth and a putty knife to clean out the rust between the panel and tube frame as best I could. Then the failed spot welds were drilled out, cleaned with acetone, clamped and welded up. I'll grind flush along with all the other filled holes.

I'm going to use electric windshield wipers. The windshield was drilled for a drivers side vacuum wiper and a manual passenger wiper. The driver side wiper had really been tightened down at some point, crushing the frame tube a bit where it inserts through the frame. I worked this crushed area back out with a punch from the opposite side. I decided to refine this area a bit by making some 1/2" OD bushings to weld into the frame tube and front panel, to avoid future crushing of the tube, and eliminate water leaking into the frame tube at the wipers. In addition, I made some 3/8" OD threaded bosses for the wiper mounting screw that also weld into the frame tube and front panel. The wiper motor mounting screw will thread into the threaded blind hole in the boss, and the front side of the frame panel will be smooth.

Here's the parts I turned and welded in:

Here's an overview shot with the wiper motor that shows how the bosses work for mounting the motor. Will grind and finish flush before paint.

 

[CJ3BL]

Making a career of windshield repair...

Weather's been nice, so the rig has been my daily driver lately. Makes the commute a whole lot more fun!

Fixing up the 3A windshield has sure been a laborious effort...Haven't had much time to work on it between day job and band gigs, but made some progress today.

The inside face of the frame tubing was pretty badly rusted in the lower areas that were filled with bondo. I cleaned it up with a file and wire brush, but wasn't too happy with the condition. The new cowl cross tube I made will weld to this area, and I was concerned that the surface was too rotted out to support decent welds. This photo is fuzzy, but you can see the steel is deeply pitted.

I decided to cut it out and replace the inside face with some fresh 1/8" steel.
I cut along the inside edge with a cut off wheel. I turns out there's a reinforcement piece inside the tube, and I cut through both. This Passenger side wasn't too bad on the inside, the driver's side had a lot more internal rust- but was still workable.

Here's the 1/8" filler plate tacked in place. It's chamfered on all edges for weld penetration. The original transition at the curved section of the frame tube had a sharp crease where the tube kicks inward in width, and this made an easy point to transition the flat filler plate on the right hand edge.

I was concerned that the finish welds would pull the windshield frame legs inward from weld shrinkage, so I used a piece of tubbing I had around, along with two collars with set screws to brace across the frame legs to fix their width position before finish welding the new filler plates.

I made the finish welds in about 2" sections, alternating sides to manage heating. The brace across the frame legs kept things stable through the finish welds, and the spacing ended up where I wanted it. Here's a filler plate welded up:

I left the inside welds as is, but ground and filed the welds on the outside edges to finish off the patch job. Then the cowl cross tube was clamped in place on the remaining original front panel. At the ends, I set c-clamps on the frame tubes as stops to set the distance evenly between the cowl cross-tube and the top cross tube. I set the spacing between the tubes at 6 11/16", which created a snug fit to the face panel lower radius. One subtle point is that I had marked the top position of the formed arch of the cowl tube when I rolled out its arched shape. Using that mark, the arch was positioned so that it was parallel to the plane of the front panel, erring slightly towards rotating the top of the tube arch very slightly forward to assure it conforms to the cowl as it flexes from the cowl clamps. Here's pics of the clamping arrangement, and initial tack welds:

Here's the cowl tube tacked in place. I'm going to mount it up to the rig to make sure the cowl tube fit to the body is OK before finish welding the cowl cross tube in place.

 

[csutton7]

flat out awesome work--your attention to detail is impressive to say the least as it's been said a few times before---good stuff to see also....

 

[danielbuck]

your work is clean, very clean. Please keep updating!

 

[Mieser]

Get back to work on the 3b.

.....but good work......

....and PhotoBucket sucks. I was lucky enough to had been on a pay plan prior which somehow grandfathered me in.

 

[CJ3BL]

Thanks csutton7 and danielbuck for the very nice comments and encouragement!

 

[CJ3BL]

Thanks Meiser! Yeah, as I keep fiddling away forever on this windshield I'm standing next to my 3B in the garage and getting anxious to get back to the build. As soon as I get this 3A windshield and top mounting done on the 2A, then it's back to the 3B! You're sure right about the photo bucket change. Not a fun surprise!

Thanks for the feedback guys, helps keep me going!

 

[CJ3BL]

Almost ready for paint

Gotta wrap up this windshield restoration so I can get a top mounted and get back to working on the 3B project! Been busy with work, but got some time in the garage the last couple weekends...

Here's some pics of how it's coming together. I tacked the lower cross tube in place using the original front panel lower edge to set the tube position. The formed lower edge of the front panel was badly rusted out, with pits going all the way through the panel. I decided to replace that section with new metal. After tacking the lower cross-tube tube in position, I cut off the lower panel edge, and then finish welded the tube:

I then cut a center panel section, tacked it to the mating panel, and also plug welded it along the lower tube. This fixed the panel in place so that I could form the edge to the tube with a soft face mallet:

Then the lower corner patch panels were trimmed, fitted and tacked. (These were hammer formed previously). Here's one tacked to the panel and plug welded to the frame:

With the corners tacked in place, it was time for lots of little tacks moving around the panel with each one to avoid heat build up. Took a while! Ground them down, did a little hammer and dolly work to straighten out some minor warping, and then hit with a body file for first pass smoothing. On the interior side, access to smooth the welds is limited by the cross tube, but I was able to get it smoothed out reasonably running the grinder perpendicular to the weld - hitting it with the squared off side edge of a fresh angle grinder wheel.

Next up, I fitted the inside lower panel corners. I tried to mimic the original design, with the inside corner piece lower edge tucked into the front corner panel. There's a little cut out to clear the tube weld at the side, and another to clear the windshield clamp body. I'll weld these in later after the clamps are in final position.

Then I checked the fit on the body again. Tweaked the mounting arms about 1/8" side to side to get the frame centered to the body. The rolled curve of the lower tube I made fits the cowl pretty well, although not as good as I would have liked. The transition from the center arc to the clamp area is a little off so it bottoms out on the cowl at that spot first...so there's more gap at the center and at the side corners, but I think it will work OK. Better than the old 2A windshield - it's lower frame tube is rusted through and cracked at the clamp area so the clamps are primarily hanging on to the front panel sheet metal...which is cracking from the stress...

With the windshield frame centered on the body, I marked the clamp positions. I decided to make some small sleeves for the clamp mounting bolt holes out of some 3/8" OD stainless tubing I had around. These were faced and chamfered on the lathe and the ID bored a little to fit the 1/4" bolts. I figured these would keep the lower tube from flattening out from the bolt clamping pressure and keep water from making it's way into the lower cross tube through the clamp mounting holes. To position the sleeves for welding I threaded some screws through the clamps in reverse, and then clamped the whole assembly in place to tack at the front panel side first. Here's the holes drilled and chamfered in the front panel/tube, and the sleeves mounted on a windshield clamp ready to mount for welding:

Here's the front side welded and rough finished, as well as the backside tube welds - fully finished:

I have some POR15 on the way and I plan to paint the insides of the corner patch panels except for where the welds will be. Trying to keep them from rusting out like the originals did!

Fitting the vent door is next. It appears to be an aftermarket panel judging from the difference in paint colors removed. It is missing the latch on the door panel and the windshield frame is missing the spot welded "bent rod" bracket- a common malady as they tend to break off. Rather than replicating the original style bracket so it can break off again, I'll try to come up with a different design that's better supported.

Also, rather than using repro steel top mounting brackets spot welded above the windshield and along the inside sides of the frame, I'm going to use an aluminum extrusion I found. My CJ3B had an old Kayline top at one time and it used an aluminum extrusion that was screwed on. I found some "keter" rail that's a nice extrusion with the right size rope channel. It's width is a little wide, but I can easily cut that down. Keter rail is used for mounting signs, awnings, etc...I'm going to paint it to match the frame and just screw it on. I think this will work better than the original spot welded steel rails, which are rust prone. The steel surfaces that the rails mount to can be fully painted and the Al channel itself won't rust.

Once that stuff is done, then it's time for paint, mounting the glass, electric wipers and a new canvas Beechwood 3A top!

 

[WILLYN]

The factory never made stuff this nice!

 

[CJ3BL]

The factory never made stuff this nice!

Thanks WILLYN! Sure have enjoyed reading your posts. Sorry you got bit by Photobucket too. I paid this year, but need to find a better solution. Hope you get something figured out, as I've been digging your work!

 

[GTOffroader]

I've been using imugr and Meiser claims that red-star members can upload pics with their posts. That said I have no idea how long either of those options will last which is frustrating.

 

[CJ3BL]

I've been using imugr and Meiser claims that red-star members can upload pics with their posts. That said I have no idea how long either of those options will last which is frustrating.

Hi GTOffroader! I'll have to research the red star upload method- that sounds like a good bet. Thanks!

 

[CJ3BL]

Vent Door Latch

The vent door on the 3A windshield was missing it's latch mechanism. The welded formed rod part of it had broken off too. Since these are prone to breaking I thought I would keep the same concept but make it so it's better supported and won't break.

Here are some pics of what I put together so far. The pieces are fabbed from stainless I had around, so they won't rust as the paint wears off. I had ordered a repro stock latch, and didn't really like the handle shape- but used the spring and shoulder bolt on the one I made. Here's the center bracket pieces that replace the original formed 1/4" rod part that had broken off:

Welded rod into plates, then ground and finished:

Welded to windshield frame bracket. Lots more support to withstand the clamping force when the vent door is shut tight against it's gasket:

The center latch piece is from the same flat stainless and has an arc similar to the outer edge of the original latch. It allows the vent to fully open. I plan to notch it after I weld the small brackets on the vent door so I can check the notch location when the door is in fully closed position. Welded in a piece of SS rod for the handle. Here it is mocked up on the vent:

 

[nhjohnny1]

Meh, ive seen better :flipoff2:

Seriously though thanks for posting, Its awesome to see such work being done and getting done, My OCD thanks you! Now if only I could do this level of work and actually finish anything....

 

[CJ3BL]

Meh, ive seen better :flipoff2:

Seriously though thanks for posting, Its awesome to see such work being done and getting done, My OCD thanks you! Now if only I could do this level of work and actually finish anything....

Thanks nhjohnny1! I'm with you on the finishing thing. I struggle with that too. Creeping feature syndrome among other impediments. This windshield thing is going on forever...

 

[CJ3BL]

Ready for glass

One little puzzle on this windshield frame restoration is that I wanted to improve on the soft top mounting rope channels. The stock ones are steel, spot welded, with wide flat flanges that trap water so they rust out. I had removed the old ones and the mating surfaces were badly pitted but workable. Grinding the surfaces down to get a good weld would leave the base metal even thinner. I also didn't want to weld on new steel rope channels and repeat the rust problem. I had ordered repro side channels and a NOS top channel. The top channel was a bit warped, the lower repro side channels were really thin and I didn't like the section shape. The upper side channels were aluminum that screw on, which was a nice idea- but they were kind of crudely trimmed. I liked the aluminum channel idea, but decided to see if I could find an aluminum extrusion that I could use for all of the pieces so that they would match, and also not rust. I think a layer of paint on each surface should be enough to avoid galvanic corrosion between the steel and aluminum. They can also be removed and repainted if they start to corrode.
I found some material that I like at "Keder Solutions". Keder channels are used for awnings, signs, etc. The part I chose has the same size channel as stock (although round), and the flange is wider. I figured I'd trim the width to make a nice fit for each location.

Here's a comparison shot: Left to Right- Keder, NOS top channel, Repro aluminum upper side channel, Repro lower side channel. The Keder is thicker, has a nice radius on the channel edges to prevent wear on the canvas top, and also a nice radius from the flange into the channel shape.

The flange transition radius is nice for the top channel and lower side channel use, but poses a problem for the upper side channels as the flange mounts to the inside of the windshield frame with the channel groove facing outward- so the radius transition bumps into the corner of the rectangular tube windshield frame, preventing the channel from sitting tight against the frame. This goofs up the distance from the channel to the door hinge. After scratching my head for a while, I decided to modify the transition radius to tighten up the fit.

A mill would be nice, but I don't have one... so I cut the into radius with a body file as shown. Aluminum cuts easy, so it was pretty quick work. The arrow points to the modified area:

The flange is also wider than needed. For the upper sides, I trimmed it very slightly so that it is the full width of the tube frame for good mechanical support. For the top channel I cut it a little wider than stock so it would cover up the face panel pitting. A band saw would be nice for this, but I don't have one of those either. I ended up using a jig saw, with a block of wood opposite the channel bump to level the saw:

Then the channels and frame were drilled with mounting holes. After that it was time for some metal finishing work, and paint. I brushed POR 15 grey, then finished with rustoleum filler primer and top coat. The al channels are finished with the same rustoleum but no POR-15. Finished painting this stuff and the mounting hardware today.

Sorry for the crummy picture... Will let it dry thoroughly then it's time to mount glass. Not sure if I'll mount the glass or take it to a glass shop since they're good at it. Almost done with this little detour. Will post some better pics when it's done and mounted on the rig. I'll mount the top (a grey Beechwood) and then it's back to my 3B project!

 

[OllieNZ]

Did you consider bonding the channels? Something like hysol ea9309 would do an excellent job and prevent galvanic corrosion.
If you don't want the permanence of bonding I'd highly recommend using a faying surface compound like JC5A (yak shit) as well as paint.

 

[CJ3BL]

Did you consider bonding the channels? Something like hysol ea9309 would do an excellent job and prevent galvanic corrosion.
If you don't want the permanence of bonding I'd highly recommend using a faying surface compound like JC5A (yak shit) as well as paint.

Hi OllieNZ! I hadn't thought of the idea of bonding the channels on- I haven't used adhesives like the modern car mfg.'s do. That's a cool idea. I've already drilled the mounting holes, and like the idea of being able to detach for repair, so I think I'll stay on that path. However, your recommendation on the faying surface compound is awesome! I checked out the JC5A material you describe and it sounds like a perfect choice for this application. Really a super idea. Even helps with avoiding corrosion at the screws- which was a concern. I've also been pondering a similar situation with panels attached to sub-frame tubes on my other "CJ3BL" project, and this material would be great for sealing / corrosion resistance on that too. Thanks for solving two problems with one idea. I sure appreciate that this forum facilitates sharing ideas like this, and that folks like you take the time to share info! Thanks!!!

 

[OllieNZ]

Hi OllieNZ! I hadn't thought of the idea of bonding the channels on- I haven't used adhesives like the modern car mfg.'s do. That's a cool idea. I've already drilled the mounting holes, and like the idea of being able to detach for repair, so I think I'll stay on that path. However, your recommendation on the faying surface compound is awesome! I checked out the JC5A material you describe and it sounds like a perfect choice for this application. Really a super idea. Even helps with avoiding corrosion at the screws- which was a concern. I've also been pondering a similar situation with panels attached to sub-frame tubes on my other "CJ3BL" project, and this material would be great for sealing / corrosion resistance on that too. Thanks for solving two problems with one idea. I sure appreciate that this forum facilitates sharing ideas like this, and that folks like you take the time to share info! Thanks!!!

I'm not particularly familiar with adhesives used in modern cars either, I've fitted a lot of bonded windscreens but the PUR adhesive used is not what I would consider a good general purpose structural adhesive.

My background is primarily in aviation. High performance adhesives, sealants and corrosion preventative compounds are commonplace.

Another product you may find useful for cavity sealing (inside of the window frame?) is AV8, it's got excellent wicking properties and will get itself into the tightest of gaps and dries to a hard waxy surface. It can be injected though small holes using a turkey baster and then you rotate the structure to ensure it spreads all around. It can also be sprayed/brushed/rolled onto external surfaces. It's wicking properties make it particularly useful for getting into lap joints that are already assembled and require protection without having to disassemble the joint.

AC43 - the aircraft mechanics bible, you may find some useful info in it. https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_43.13-1B_w-chg1.pdf

I also find forums a great source of ideas and experiences, so many people from different backgrounds all with their own useful nuggets of info to add joined by a common interest.

Regards

Ollie

P.S. Keep up the good work