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Dustin Crawford

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, I would like to install cutting brakes to use on all 4 corners of my Toyota with selectable lockers front and rear. In my mind this is the way I would like to do it

Image


Maybe I am understanding this wrong, but in doing it that way (where you push both levers to lock both fronts) you would be making the two chambers in the master cylinder go from Front/Rear to Left/Right. I also drive my rig on the street a lot so I dont really want to give up that safety aspect.

One option I see is if you turn them sideways and making the front lever go Left/Right for front tires and Rear lever for Left/Right rear tires but I wonder how awkward that would be because it sounds like you need a good amount of force applied to the levers. But at least this way you could keep the front chamber of the MC designated to the front tires and the rear for the rear.

Do you guys see where I am going with this? Just looking for the slickest install.
 
#3 ·
heres how I am planning to do it on my new buggy....same levers as you just dual master cyls

right lever-pulled back brakes right rear tire
left lever-pulled back brakes left rear.
right lever pushed forward-brakes left front
left lever-pushed forward brakes right front

now the main reason i did this is because I want mine to be able to brake one front and rear on the same side(think like a bobcat tractor...) at the same time and that isnt possible with the fronts plumbed correct side.

Now the down side is my master cyls now brake one front one rear tire each....diagonally...it may cause problems but I give it a try.....
 
#4 · (Edited)
It APPEARS that you have the 2 in 2 out cuttng brakes instead of the 1 in 2 out. If that is the case, you can pretty much do ANYTHING with them. First, please confirm what you have and then the answer is easy from there.

Rock Ape...which setup do you have??? "1 in 2 out" or "2 in 2 out"??? Again, you'll need a certain setup if you want to skid steer and the way you've listed it above, it will not be intuitive to drive.
 
#6 ·
Ok the way people are describing things is pretty confusing here, and I've plumbed these systems probably a dozen times or more.

for the OP. If you want to have one handle push/pull for left side, and one push/pull for right, and still have the master cylinder chambers work front/rear you need a pair of the 2in-2out cutting brakes that Dustin was talking about. You take the line from the front chamber, bring it back and then T into two lines. They will go to the upper cutting brake chambers (if they are mounted as shown). Take the rear line and split it to the 2 lower chambers. Then run the 4 outs to their respective wheels.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the replys guys. I thought I was gonna strike out on this one.

Dustin- I guess this makes sense now because I have not found one with two ins two outs. Is this 'rockcrawler' version what you are talking about? I looked at it yesterday but at first thought the top one was a bleeder.

Image
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Sweet, thanks a lot man.

So since I have been searching a little, I seem to be seeing a lot of stuff about skidsteer style turning by locking front and rear on one side.

Which is preferred? lock one tire and pivot around with 3wd or both diffs open and one side brakes locked?

Seems to me the bobcat style wouldnt turn as tight and might cause a ton of scrub (read bead breaking scrub). It seems like the pivot around one tire would work good because the back end (or whichever is locked) would help kick it out. I guess it probably depends on the individual scenario and the traction (snow) and cliffs around.
 
#10 ·
You don't even turn the steering wheel for most skid-steering...it works incredible but not in all situations. It is really more of a competition tool for select rigs than it is practical for use on the trail. We use skid steer on the RockHer but not any other rigs.
 
#11 ·
Excuse the newbness, I have never owned or driven a rig with a cutting brake (though I intend to install on in my current build, rear only) but I’m visualizing how locking one side is really going to help.

I’ve seen the RockHer in action and up close, never noticed it specifically using this technique, but I’ve seen it do some pretty cool stuff. It just seems to me to be a complicated system that isn’t going to give a normal trail truck any really special capabilities.

The reason a skid steer works so well on is that they have the ability to put one side in forward, and the other in reverse thus allowing it to do doughnuts (or whatever they call them where you live:flipoff2: )
 
#12 ·
EarlKann said:
Excuse the newbness, I have never owned or driven a rig with a cutting brake (though I intend to install on in my current build, rear only) but I’m visualizing how locking one side is really going to help.

I’ve seen the RockHer in action and up close, never noticed it specifically using this technique, but I’ve seen it do some pretty cool stuff. It just seems to me to be a complicated system that isn’t going to give a normal trail truck any really special capabilities.

The reason a skid steer works so well on is that they have the ability to put one side in forward, and the other in reverse thus allowing it to do doughnuts (or whatever they call them where you live:flipoff2: )
Click to expand...

Original "skid steer" machines did not have the ability to do that. They really did skid one side or the other to turn. Tank steer makes more sense. Thats how they still steer. I would like to see a buggy do it in person though. Or what spot it would be a good tool. Trying to figure out if its worth the extra money for a front arb in the new buggy
 
#13 · (Edited)
You would be very surprised at what you can do with different combos of steering direction and brake application...it's more than a simple paragraph or two to explain but those who have seen it are pretty stoked by it. But again, on the trail, it's more of a novelty...a single left-right cutting brake for the rear with a rear ARB is the ticket for simplicity and ease of use.

And skid steer in its original form is exactly how it sounds...skidding one side while powering the other.
 
#14 ·
The picture he posted is of my setup, they are 2 in 2 out, I can lock up any tire by it self, front or rear and both front or both rear depending on what I want to do in any given situation, when I was originally researching them, Dustin was really helpful and gave me alot of info to help make my final decision on what route to go with them
 
#16 ·
megolfer said:
Ok so I want to be able to just lock up both rears right now but would like the option of locking either rear tire at a later date. Which one would work the best
Click to expand...
I've got a 1 in - 2 out double handle. It's plumbed into the rear. Pull the handle for the side you want or pull both handles for both rear brakes.

I've only had it out a couple times but it works well so far and the handles are close enough it's not hard to pull both.
 
#17 ·
RedBullJeep said:
Rock Ape...which setup do you have??? "1 in 2 out" or "2 in 2 out"??? Again, you'll need a certain setup if you want to skid steer and the way you've listed it above, it will not be intuitive to drive.
Click to expand...
OK So I went and checked mine are 2 in 2 out...so....How am I gonna plumb that with dual wilwood master cyls??

Can I plug the upper inlet port and just run 1 in 2 out???

Not trying thread jack ya D Crawford....I just have close to the same question and do want Skid steer capability!!!
 
#18 · (Edited)
The passage from the top cylinder to the bottom cylinder has been plugged...you CANNOT just plug on input or another because the fluid will not pass through the port. Keep those cutters and plumb them as shown below. Then, later if you decide to do something different, you already have the right cutters for any situation.

Image
 
#20 ·
And to add this here, yet again so people searching can find it easilly:

The key to ANY system with cutting brakes is a proper bleed and here is the process I've posted in numerous place on this board. It works VERY well.

Our process:

Open bleeder on caliper.

push down the brake pedal approx 7/8 travel and then push and hold the cutting brake lever at about 7/8 travel.

close the bleeder but continue to hold the cutting brake.

release the pedal but not the cutting brake.

pump the pedal slowly, allowing the cutting brake to return but with hand pressure against it. If pedal hits bottom before handle is back to neutral, Continue to hold cutting brake and lift pedal with foot to ensure its full return and push pedal again to refill cutting brake. Continue until the pedal pumping has pushed the cutting brake handle back to neutral.

start process all over again.

That is the proper process for a manual bleed with cutting brakes.


Next...when things are beginning to look like most of the air is out, we use a lot of force on a few bleeds to ensure any bubbles sticking to the rough walls and hard edges inside the caliper are broken loose and carried up and out. Thanks to MrBlaine for teaching us that one a few years ago.

Finally, NEVER stroke a M/C or cutting brake before it has been at least bench bled...that's the best way to ruin it with just one stroke.
 
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