I had a 1975 454 rebuilt in approximately 1997 for a project that never happened, at the time i installed an overcam oiler from BC engineering and a high volume oil pump . after years of this motor just sitting around i finally put it in a truck just to get it running 13 years later . anyways the probem im having is lack of oil to the rocker arms , im getting good oil pressure and oil is getting to the auxiliry cam oiler but barely any gets to the rocker arms very little but definately not enough . i know this is an old mod and dont know if bc engineering is even around anymore just wondering if anyone else dealt with this issue. im sure people are now using roller cams anyways but thats money id like to save if possible.
454 oiling issues, aux cam oiler
oldrivers
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I had a 1975 454 rebuilt in approximately 1997 for a project that never happened, at the time i installed an overcam oiler from BC engineering and a high volume oil pump . after years of this motor just sitting around i finally put it in a truck just to get it running 13 years later . anyways the probem im having is lack of oil to the rocker arms , im getting good oil pressure and oil is getting to the auxiliry cam oiler but barely any gets to the rocker arms very little but definately not enough . i know this is an old mod and dont know if bc engineering is even around anymore just wondering if anyone else dealt with this issue. im sure people are now using roller cams anyways but thats money id like to save if possible.
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11,619 Posts
are you just running a primer rod to check oil flow?
i have never seen a primer flow much oil to the rockers any how.
try cylcling the crank over by hand while you prime the system and see if that helps.
you may also need to add more restriction to the cam oiler so that it isnt creating a path of least resistance for the oil to flow to instead of the rockers.
its like poking a hole in a hose with a spray head on it, if you poke a small hole in it you wont realy affect the flow at the head, poke a big hole in it and you will lose presure at the head because it is all going out the other hole.
i have never seen a primer flow much oil to the rockers any how.
try cylcling the crank over by hand while you prime the system and see if that helps.
you may also need to add more restriction to the cam oiler so that it isnt creating a path of least resistance for the oil to flow to instead of the rockers.
its like poking a hole in a hose with a spray head on it, if you poke a small hole in it you wont realy affect the flow at the head, poke a big hole in it and you will lose presure at the head because it is all going out the other hole.
yep im going to tear the intake back off and try adjusting it restricting it somehow . but im wondering why this worked for others the only thing i didnt do was mod the oilpump cover less clearance, but i'd still think some oil would go through i also pulled a rocker off and there is oil about 2 inches up the pushrods and thats as far as it will go but thyere not restricted . ive burned out a few cam lobes in the past thats why im going this route but now with rollers im sure no one goes this route anymore . but do they even make a roller for towing etc ill have to possibly research that if i cant resolve this. what happens when you let something sit for 13 years ...
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7,324 Posts
you should look into a couple of modifications to your oiling system if you own a bbc.
#1: get rid of the factory oil filter bypass in the oil filter adapter fitting.
you can find that HERE
#2: run an oil filter that does not have a bypass. either a Wix 51061 or NAPA 1061. Yes, there is a bypass in most oil filters. you may have to ask the parts store for a racing filter without bypass. Some parts guys dont even know that theres a bypass in most filters, and they can look at you all confused... Trust me, i made one cry when i was looking for mine. When you do this modification, be aware that you need to be gentle on warmup, as too much RPM will produce more oil pressure than previously, especially if you have shimmed your factory pump to produce more pressure. 80 psi at a cold idle is not uncommon with 10-40.
#3: never EVER restrict IN ANY WAY the oil going to the top end of the motor.
#4: use the best oil you can in your engine, with as much ZDDP that you can find. Brad-Penn still makes dino oil, with zddp in it, for engine break in. you can add a Lucas additive with it, too. When zinc and phosphorous were removed from the oils, any flat tappet BBC became extinct.
The oiling kit you describe isnt a bad deal, but there are other things you can do to help your engine live.
#1: get rid of the factory oil filter bypass in the oil filter adapter fitting.
you can find that HERE
#2: run an oil filter that does not have a bypass. either a Wix 51061 or NAPA 1061. Yes, there is a bypass in most oil filters. you may have to ask the parts store for a racing filter without bypass. Some parts guys dont even know that theres a bypass in most filters, and they can look at you all confused... Trust me, i made one cry when i was looking for mine. When you do this modification, be aware that you need to be gentle on warmup, as too much RPM will produce more oil pressure than previously, especially if you have shimmed your factory pump to produce more pressure. 80 psi at a cold idle is not uncommon with 10-40.
#3: never EVER restrict IN ANY WAY the oil going to the top end of the motor.
#4: use the best oil you can in your engine, with as much ZDDP that you can find. Brad-Penn still makes dino oil, with zddp in it, for engine break in. you can add a Lucas additive with it, too. When zinc and phosphorous were removed from the oils, any flat tappet BBC became extinct.
The oiling kit you describe isnt a bad deal, but there are other things you can do to help your engine live.
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5,393 Posts
I just got my big block back from my machinist on Friday, and he gave me a couple bottles of zinc additive to mix with the oil, I guess that all aftermarket flat tappet cams are made of inferior metal or something, because they all get wiped without the additive.
Its a PITA, but he said to never use regular oil in the motor without the additive, or the cam will go flat in a couple months or so.
Its a PITA, but he said to never use regular oil in the motor without the additive, or the cam will go flat in a couple months or so.
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7,324 Posts
its not the camshaft.
its the oil.
its the oil.
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237 Posts
Yes if the motor sat for 13 years you hopefully you dissasembled and cleaned it up and re-lubbed it especially if there was already old oil sittin in it dryin up and gunking up. If you have the money convert your motor to full roller, you can find roller cams for your set up.
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7,324 Posts
if you use a gen6 timing chain, you can install a late model hydraulic roller cam in your mk4 block and use aftermarket hydraulic roller lifters.
takeout cam- 40 bucks through competition products.
lifters- saw a set on ebay for 200 bucks...
springs... 100-150 bucks.
electric fuel pump, 75 bucks.
takeout cam- 40 bucks through competition products.
lifters- saw a set on ebay for 200 bucks...
springs... 100-150 bucks.
electric fuel pump, 75 bucks.
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5,393 Posts
Edit:
I am going to rephrase my question:
If its not the cam, its the oil, then how is it that OEM flat tappet cams that have not been changed out since the motor was new haven't been wiped? And I'm referring to the 1970's and 80's era cams? I know that the higher milage motors have to have a worn cam, but not the extent that these new cams get wiped without the zinc additive, right?
Maybe I am missing something here. My machinist said that he thought the aftermarket cams are made from inferior metals, hence the reason that they wear out quick(er) as opposed to the OEM cams that get regular zinc deficient oil ran through them, and apparently don't suffer the same effects....
I have done the same. I have run the shit out of some old motors with todays oil without problems. I think it is that the cam takes on a hardening over time, kind of like a set of gears. After time it is not all that important, say like 100,000 miles or two. I have wiped a few cams in recent past and now will not run the new style oil. Just my thought. I am sure someone will slap me straight.
Not to hyjack, but I have a plug tapped into my stock bypass on my big block. It was done before I purchased the block. Safe to go forward or should I buy that fancy piece that grumpy showed. Which still never ceases to amaze me with his knowledge.
end hyjack
later
jenks
Not to hyjack, but I have a plug tapped into my stock bypass on my big block. It was done before I purchased the block. Safe to go forward or should I buy that fancy piece that grumpy showed. Which still never ceases to amaze me with his knowledge.
end hyjack
later
jenks
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5,358 Posts
Just to add...
A Wix 51060 doesn't have a bypass valve either. The only difference between a Wix 51060 and a 51061 is that the 60 has an anti-drainback valve built in which certainly isn't necessary in a vertical style Chevy filter, but isn't hurting anything either. A person really should be running a Wix 51794 as it is twice the size of the 51060.
The racing versions of the filters (51060R, etc) do not filter as finely as the regular versions. Their micron rating is significantly higher. The benefit is that their flowrate is much higher. They make sense during winter months if you are not running a bypass as they will allow the thicker oil to flow a little easier and they can handle higher burst pressures which you will see during the cold months. However, during summer there is absolutely no reason to run anything other than the standard filters.
A Wix 51060 doesn't have a bypass valve either. The only difference between a Wix 51060 and a 51061 is that the 60 has an anti-drainback valve built in which certainly isn't necessary in a vertical style Chevy filter, but isn't hurting anything either. A person really should be running a Wix 51794 as it is twice the size of the 51060.
The racing versions of the filters (51060R, etc) do not filter as finely as the regular versions. Their micron rating is significantly higher. The benefit is that their flowrate is much higher. They make sense during winter months if you are not running a bypass as they will allow the thicker oil to flow a little easier and they can handle higher burst pressures which you will see during the cold months. However, during summer there is absolutely no reason to run anything other than the standard filters.
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7,324 Posts
its the oil. older cams are dying. most of the older cars arent on the road, so you dont notice it so much... but they are dying.
as for the filter adapter, anytime you plug pot metal, you can expect it to go south soon... even though it may not. thats not all the issue. The stock GM part with a plug has been known to develop a leak from the bypass being plugged, and the pot metal flexing. still looks intact, acts intact, but leaks when under pressure. when they break, you might not know it. its just a bigger leak, and a slight change in oil pressure.... at the time.
its two bolts. you change your oil, change the adapter, put a new filter on it, and youre done.
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237 Posts
Your oil problem can also be from main and rod bearings clearances. If the motor sat for a long period it can create flat spots in the bearings and also maybe on your cam. Creating to much bearing clearance wich also creates oiling problems and pressure threw out the motor. That line you installed to the front of the motor is just a means to get oil to the front of the motor quicker and sounds like it didnt work for you. I think your bearings mite be shot from sitting so long. I just took a part my 454 that i installed a cam and gear drive in and it sat for at least 8 years. So i recently opened it up to check the bearings and they got flat spots plus the piston/rod pins were like almost frozen from oil dried up inside there.
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237 Posts
Thanks for the info grumpy. I know the older ones are dying but I like to keep a stockpile of sbc's around to keep them alive
, Still trying to accumulate a bbc stash and have a small start.
I forgot to clarify in my previous post that the cams that I had wiped were new aftermarkets flat tappet, not the old vintage. Broke in with the additive then went to today's oil. Did not work for me. I think that I am going to stick with rollers whenever possible and stay with the additive regardless.
later
jenks
, Still trying to accumulate a bbc stash and have a small start. I forgot to clarify in my previous post that the cams that I had wiped were new aftermarkets flat tappet, not the old vintage. Broke in with the additive then went to today's oil. Did not work for me. I think that I am going to stick with rollers whenever possible and stay with the additive regardless.
later
jenks
Thanks for all the suggestions for i have been trying to search alot of this info on the net but get alot of run arounds articles. I have 1 more question that i cannot remember , inside the timing chain cover there are two oil passages with set screws right by the cam gear, is oil supposed to bleed through these two passages ? mine does but i dont remember that in other big blocks ive run in the past. the chain gets oiled from the bottom front where the pan connects to the timing chain cover correct? im thinking those passages are supposed to be sealed and not weep holes ... thanks again for the info ....
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7,324 Posts
some places will machine or drill a hole in the front plug of the oil galley that feeds the cam to lube the timing chain and gears. thats an old secret from Smokey Yunick. it keeps your timing chain alive a little longer. factory engines never had this, and they also used a fiber gear.
modern oil is for modern engines. diesels have also had their oil diluted and the zddp has been removed from them too, at this point.
and Jenks... if you wanna get a BBC, i have one on my porch i cant find someone to buy for 500 bucks.. it needs a home.
modern oil is for modern engines. diesels have also had their oil diluted and the zddp has been removed from them too, at this point.
and Jenks... if you wanna get a BBC, i have one on my porch i cant find someone to buy for 500 bucks.. it needs a home.
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