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3VZE Ignition Gremlins

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W. Akers

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
This is one of those extremely frustrating electrical problems dealing with my 1990 4runner's 3.0L ignition circuit. Let the explanation begin:

about two weeks ago I started my car cold, let it idle for a couple of minutes and took off down the street. When I gave my accelerator a little blip after a stop sign it stalled out (mind you its EFI), and refused to start again. I got towed home by a nearby friend started trouble shooting.

It smelled like gas in and around the engine, and had no other issues with fuel delivery before hand, so I can without doubt rule out fuel, and air issues. That left me with an electrical issue.

First I pulled the No. 1 spark plug, grounded it outside of the cylinder, turned the engine over and low & behold- NO SPARK! I reinserted the spark plug and moved further back the line to the distributor. When turning the engine over, I only have 12V going into the distributor cap (not nearly enough). So i go back further to the ignition coil itself. same story, only 12 volts when I turn the key on and try to start it. I tested this in a friends same 3VZE and his coil puts out like 110 volts in spurts, like mine should be doing.

SO GET THIS! I buy a new coil from Napa Auto Parts, put it in and it fires right up, BUT THEN- after letting it idle for about 3 minutes I blip the throttle again, it dies.....and wont start again. All fuses under the hood and the dash are intact. Am I shorting something? How da fuk is the throttle and the ignition coil connected? this shit cray....

Thanks for reading, idk what pics will do for anyone, but can grab some anytime.

Heres what search brought back, one of the threads was pretty helpful, but was already what I checked.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?searchid=11946919
 
Discussion starter · #2 ·
Im going to go back under the hood, but at this point I'm starting to lean away from the ignition coil and more towards the igniter itself, the computer looking think right behind the coil.

Also, Im gonna try and get a hold of my friends ignition coil and igniter to try in my car, but Im hesitant because I don't want to short out his working equipment.
 
#3 ·
Honestly I would go with a Toyota Junkyard coil and igniter, but that is just me :homer:

I have never had the issue on any of the 3.0's, but I have had a 22r with a bad coil/ignitor. Ran a O'Rielly cheapo brand and couldn't get the fawkers to last more than a day or two(warrantied 2 or 3 of 'em). Went with JY Toyota and shit worked just fine :confused: I may have had a different issue, but I suck at electrical and it worked :flipoff2:

Based soley on personal experience, your results will vary :flipoff2:
 
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#4 ·
" smelled like gas in and around the engine, and had no other issues with fuel delivery before hand, so I can without doubt rule out fuel, and air issues."

no you cant. smelling gas on an EFI motor is grounds for concern, not grounds to rule anything out

anyway check the air gap to the pickup inside your dist, seen intermittent problems cause by dist shaft bearing being worn out
 
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Discussion starter · #5 ·
trainwreck said:
" smelled like gas in and around the engine, and had no other issues with fuel delivery before hand, so I can without doubt rule out fuel, and air issues."

no you cant. smelling gas on an EFI motor is grounds for concern, not grounds to rule anything out

anyway check the air gap to the pickup inside your dist, seen intermittent problems cause by dist shaft bearing being worn out
Click to expand...
unlikely because there is only 12 volts going to the distributor, so i know the problem is before it. Also, it only smells like gas after i turn it over, which makes sense because I'm dumping fuel into the cylinder thats not being burnt so I believe thats the only reason why i smell gas, maybe i should have left that tid bit out.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Anyways, here is some interesting information. with a multimeter i tested my friends same connection and got different results than mine....

Image


LABELED FROM LEFT TO RIGHT (i.e. 1,2,3,4,5)

on my friends truck here is what i got:
1) 5v 2) 0V 3) 12V 4) 0V 5) 12V

BUT,

on MY truck:
1) 1V 2) 0V 3) 12V 4) 0V 5) 0V


so now i need to find out why im not getting volts where I should. does anyone know of a fuse or anything before the igniter? hmmm
 
#8 ·
Are both trucks same year or even same generation?

Where both tested the same way? Key on engine off? Or key off?

What are your wire colors going to your igniter? I can cross reference it with a wiring diagram at work tomorrow.
 
#10 ·
W. Akers said:
unlikely because there is only 12 volts going to the distributor, so i know the problem is before it. Also, it only smells like gas after i turn it over, which makes sense because I'm dumping fuel into the cylinder thats not being burnt so I believe thats the only reason why i smell gas, maybe i should have left that tid bit out.
Click to expand...
yeah you left a LOT of tidbits out. Like which wire you were referring to as having 12v. If you are coming around asking for help, get your shit together and make sure your post is clear, thanks :flipoff2:
 
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Discussion starter · #13 ·
whats up guys, Ive been gone working for the past month and a half, but now im back and looking into this annoying issue again. the problem seems somewhat intermittent, I had a friend come by and he said that it started right up for him about a week before i got home. But- when i come home, it refuses to start for me.

I tested the resistance of the ignition coil, and it is within specs. When the key is turned to the "on" position, I have 11vots at the two wires going into it. when I crank it, there is a slight voltage drop, but im not getting the needed much hire voltage coming out of coil.

It seems like its not getting a signal to fire. is this what the igniter should be doing? the only thing left i can think of (after tracing through the wiring harness to make sure theres no frays or shorts) is to put in a friends igniter and see if that solves it.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
MaXXis85 said:
3vze Ignition system
http://ncttora.com/fsm/1993/ignition.html
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Thank you. thats a very helpful link. I still have a question after seeing that though.

Could the igniter somehow be disallowing the coil from transforming the 12 volt input to a one-hundred+ output voltage? Both coils that I have ( i have two) have resistances that are within spec, and one is brand new. Idk why its not creating the high voltage for a spark???
 
#15 ·
the igniter grounds the coil to saturate it, and then turns the coil off to collapse the primary field into the secondary windings generating high voltage. Like roughly 10K volts. The igniter gets an rpm and maybe (not sure on the 3.0) crank position from the pickup in the distributor. The igniter then conditions this signal and sends it to the ecu. The ecu decides what timing should be and sends a signal back to the igniter. The igniter uses this signal to determine when to fire the coil. If the igniter doesn't ground the coil, or doesn't ground it long enough, you will not make any high voltage. If the igniter doesn't see any signal from the ecu, it should still run but at a fixed timing. So, you need to hook your test light to the negative side of the coil and see if it flashes when you crank it. If not, the igniter is not turning on the coil. This could be the igniter, power or ground to the igniter (igniter usually grounds through it's mounting bracket), or the pickup in distributor.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Unclejesse88 said:
the igniter grounds the coil to saturate it, and then turns the coil off to collapse the primary field into the secondary windings generating high voltage. Like roughly 10K volts. The igniter gets an rpm and maybe (not sure on the 3.0) crank position from the pickup in the distributor. The igniter then conditions this signal and sends it to the ecu. The ecu decides what timing should be and sends a signal back to the igniter. The igniter uses this signal to determine when to fire the coil. If the igniter doesn't ground the coil, or doesn't ground it long enough, you will not make any high voltage. If the igniter doesn't see any signal from the ecu, it should still run but at a fixed timing. So, you need to hook your test light to the negative side of the coil and see if it flashes when you crank it. If not, the igniter is not turning on the coil. This could be the igniter, power or ground to the igniter (igniter usually grounds through it's mounting bracket), or the pickup in distributor.
Click to expand...
GREAT! thank you, this is exactly what I needed to read. Il try grounding the coil tomorrow and see if it goes on/off. thanks, and stay tuned!
 
#17 ·
I was having the issue of no spark on my 3.0 - replaces coil, igniter, fuses... it was a loose connection at the starter, the little wire coming off of the solenoid that sends a signal back to the ECU. Hope this helps anyone with starting issues, no spark.
 
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