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5.3/700r4/D300 swap into a 109 on a budget

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#21 ·
aloharover said:
I am in the process of installing an LS engine into a 1970 IIa and have been doing a ton of research.

1- What year vehicle did you pull the engine from?
2- What make and model donner vehicle?
3- Did it come with a throttle body?
4- What year/make/model did you get the ECM from?
5- What year/make/model did you get the harness from?

In the photo I see a DBC LM7, yes you can get the stock pedal to work with a throttle cable. Lokar has the stuff. You want a DBC harness and ECM.

Do you already have a 700R4 mated to a D300? If not, advance has adapters to got to the series case. I would look into that.

If you do have the D300, what is your plan for a parking brake?



Disc brakes on a Series front axle is not a trivial matter. The coiler swivel balls and housings are different sizes. There isn't really anywhere on the leafer housing to "fab brackets". You can't just put coiler discs on leafer hubs.
ROAM sells the Timm Cooper front kit and is probably the easiest way to do it.

A lot of people run Scout power steering boxes, that is what I have done on mine. I also run hydro boost. I had to build a spacer for the brake pedal tower, but otherwise its stock. Right now I am running a 1984 GMC 6.2l and my PS pump has the dual return lines for the hydro boost and steering box.

BUT, I also know people are starting to use the Rangie P38 PS Boxes. Guess they are getting cheaper and easier to source than Scout boxes from the 70s.

For anyone else looking at an LS swap...

The LM7 throttle body could be a drive by wire (DBW) not a drive by cable (DBC). Most of the Chevy and GMC vehciels made the swap from DBC to DBW in 2002. The vans were a couple years latter.

DBW is all electronically controlled. You can not modify a Series throttle pedal to work with a DBW TB. If you are using a DBW TB you need to get the matching accelerator pedal (APP), throttle actuator control (TAC), and harness between APP and TAC.
Now in the newer LS engines the TAC has been removed and that functionality is controlled by the ECM. This wouldn't affect the LM7.
Also if you have a DBW TB it's going to be very difficult to get the 700R4 TV cable working correctly.
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You can convert the DBW to cable very easily. I used a camaro TB and it cost me $40. Then went from there. The DBW just isn't worth the hassle. I am assuming the 5.3 is the same as the 6.0 here.
 
#22 ·
there is a guy in oz that has built his own disc brake kits for series. These have been very well sorted and use easy to get calipers and disks. His kits are probably too spendy for you USA guys though. Yet they are a very fair price given the work involved, what he supplies and the finished product.
 
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Discussion starter · #23 ·
in my case, the 5.3 and 6.0 are the same. There are obvious differences with heads and bore but the external components are all the same (for the most part).

My 5.3 (LM7) is a DBC because I didn't want the hassle of the DBW. For what I'm using it for, the DBC is perfect, even in my buggy.

The main idea is to use components on this Rover that work on my buggy so I only have to keep 1 set of spares in the garage and to keep replacement part sourcing fairly easy.

For the disc brakes up front, I'm now intrigued and have made up my mind that I'll at least take a look at them this weekend :) The goal is to use some standard GM 1/2 ton calipers and pads. Once again, those are the same as what I use on my Dana 60 and 14 bolt in my buggy.

For the rear axle, I'll keep it stock at the moment; I have plenty of other things to work on at the moment. Once it gets up and going, I'll address the axle rear upgrade.
 
#24 ·
Buckon37s said:
You can convert the DBW to cable very easily. I used a camaro TB and it cost me $40. Then went from there. The DBW just isn't worth the hassle. I am assuming the 5.3 is the same as the 6.0 here.
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Yes, you can swap out the DBC and DBW TBs and then use the appropriate harness :)

If you have the pedal and harness, it is my understanding that the DBW is a pretty easy to run set up.

And yes, the 4.8, 5.3, 6.0 engines are very interchangeable parts wise.
Cams, heads, exhausts, pans, intakes, etc.

You can take the entire accessory drive line off a vette and stick it on a truck engine.

You can run any transmission that fit behind the SBC on the LS's.

If I had the $$ I would just go LSA, 6L80, and STAK 3spd would be my goal :)
But my pocket book can afford a 4.8 matted to my current SM465 & D18. Though if I am lucky I will be able to find a GM 1500 to pull the engine from and it will have the NV3500

Maybe I am a bit harsh on the front disc... but I do think it's not going to be easy and would love to see how someone gets it to work.
Now I have a couple coiler axles in addition to the leaf fronts, so I am just working with rovers bits that I already have. I have 3/4 ton GM bits, cant see how to make them work.

Have never looked at the 1/2 ton GM stuff. Would you use 2wd or 4wd?
 
#26 ·
I run 1/2ton gm stuff all around with 3/4 rotors. You would need to space the disks closer because of rotor thickness. I would just suffer with crappy brakes till I upgraded everything just because, popsicle.
 
#27 ·
Buckon37s said:
I run 1/2ton gm stuff all around with 3/4 rotors. You would need to space the disks closer because of rotor thickness. I would just suffer with crappy brakes till I upgraded everything just because, popsicle.
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Some day you'll grow up and run with the men Buck!:flipoff2:

Drums in the back (for now), D90 front calipers and RRC ABS pump will put you through the windscreen if you're not careful.

If I can ever find the part number for a 25 hour day, I will have discs on the back as well-D110 style!

And, before my detractors weigh in, that SWB is on 35s and stops just fine.
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
DownNDirty said:
What was he asking for the car next to it? That would be worth a road trip.
Click to expand...
$950 for the other cars.



I have 3/4 ton rotors on my buggy with the 1/2 ton calipers and pads. Honestly, I think they are the same as the 3/4 ton but I can't remember.

Either way, I'm going to upgrade the brakes however I can even if I have to swap in a D44 or D60 front end :D I just don't trust the drum brakes
 
#30 ·
PTSchram said:
Some day you'll grow up and run with the men Buck!:flipoff2:

Drums in the back (for now), D90 front calipers and RRC ABS pump will put you through the windscreen if you're not careful.

If I can ever find the part number for a 25 hour day, I will have discs on the back as well-D110 style!

And, before my detractors weigh in, that SWB is on 35s and stops just fine.
Click to expand...
The rover brakes are not that bad. But some people want "good" brakes. My 3/4 are not "good". They are adequate but while racing I can out brake people by downshifting into hard corners. For panick braking though, I'm kinda boned. It's all about what your expectations are.
 
#31 · (Edited)
ECORS said:
The local U pull it yard has a few Discoveries; I'll make a run over there this weekend and pull rotors for an attempt to use on the 109 :D
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The Discos have solid rotors. Range Rover Classics and D90s had vented rotors. The D90s had significantly larger pistons and more friction area.

FWIW-they aren't that expensive new from Napa.
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
So I should really be looking for RRCs or D90s in lieu of the Discos because the Discos are solid and not vented?


I checked a couple of part stores and none of them were in stock and took about 3 days to get. If I'm going to take a peek at the brakes this weekend, the only option was the local U pull it yard. There were a few RRCs out there too so I may hit those up first :)


Learning as I go :D
 
#33 · (Edited)
Following with interest,
same swap I'd love to do for my 109" (a 4.8 would be awesome too, but LS engines are hard to find here and mucho expensive :( ),
I have the P38 'box and plan to convert to front discs and Salisbury > D60 rear, as soon as I can afford.

Good luck with the build, I'm envious :flipoff2:
 
#34 ·
Be prepared to be disappointed when you get to the pull apart.

The easiest way to get new axle shafts is to unbolt the swivel ball (aka, the inner C) and take the entire assembly. Every disco I've ever seen at the pull apart has had the entire knuckle, etc robbed off of it.

That said, if you are looking to do an axle swap, and you can find em, a complete disco axle swap might be a good way to go. That way you can get newer axle components, disc brakes all the way around, and 3.54 gears straight out of the box.

Dunno, just a thought. Oh and BTW, the rotors are behind the hub. So you gotta pull the hub. Have fun.

All of that said, you are correct. The drum brakes suck.
 
#35 ·
PTSchram said:
Um, that wasn't a Stage One was it?

I couldn't see the transmission/transfer case. If it had a one-piece transmission/transfer case, for the love of God, please STOP tearing it apart.

What you have could well be more valuable than you think.

I know, I know, I know, I'm not a purist, but if this is a Stage One, it would be a shame to see it butchered up in the interests of anything but preservation.

Nevermind. Judging by the dash panel, it's a SIIA and not a SIII.

Carry on with your project!
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That was my thought too. Series 3 with a 3.5 carb V8 could be a stage 1. But I'm not good with the series variants, good to know it's not a rare one.
 
#36 ·
Buckon37s said:
The rover brakes are not that bad. But some people want "good" brakes. My 3/4 are not "good". They are adequate but while racing I can out brake people by downshifting into hard corners. For panick braking though, I'm kinda boned. It's all about what your expectations are.
Click to expand...
That's all you got?:D
LOL-I thought for sure I'd get a bigger rise than that.

I was pleasantly surprised at the results of the D90 caliper swap and can't wait to get the discs on the back. If they are at all as effective as the D90 front swap was, I will be finished with the braking system for a while.

ECORS said:
I checked a couple of part stores and none of them were in stock and took about 3 days to get.
Click to expand...
Wow, my local Napa stocks this stuff.

Dougal said:
That was my thought too. Series 3 with a 3.5 carb V8 could be a stage 1. But I'm not good with the series variants, good to know it's not a rare one.
Click to expand...
If I hadn't owned a coupla Series trucks and now have a Stage One, I wouldn't have begun to recognize what's there. I'm kinda surprised that Series gearbox held up the incredible horsepower and torque of that carbed 3.5:laughing:
 
#37 ·
LR Max said:
That said, if you are looking to do an axle swap, and you can find em, a complete disco axle swap might be a good way to go. That way you can get newer axle components, disc brakes all the way around, and 3.54 gears straight out of the box. .
Click to expand...
but if you are going that far, might as well get the front coils, arms etc.
Either that or plan on doing a SOA conversion on the rig.

The steering will foul on the leaf springs.
 
#38 ·
PTSchram said:
I'm kinda surprised that Series gearbox held up the incredible horsepower and torque of that carbed 3.5:laughing:
Click to expand...
PT, are you being sarcastic?
 
#39 ·
ECORS said:
I just don't trust the drum brakes
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My 88 tips the scales at over 5500lbs. Home made frame, full internal cage, over built front bumper, the 6.2l, rear sals, etc. It's a pig.

I put 109 drums on all four corners of the 88 and run a hydroboost MC. I can lock up all four and it doesn't pull under heavy breaking.

I still want to get discs on the front, but drums do work.

Pete
 
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