Odd Bolt Pattern / Tire Size

randee · Oct 23, 2015

Hi guys, this is an unusual and somewhat off topic question. The only reason I ask, is that as I researched this, I often ended up on this forum. So I registered to ask.

I just bought this dually tilt trailer. It was in decent shape. Just needed some new tires and some new wood. I figured no problem.

Well the tires with tubes, seemed to be holding air. They started falling apart on the way home. So when I went to find the tire size they said 6.50-16LT. Had a really hard time finding some, I was hoping to get a cheap set used. Found some vintage style for sale. Only thing is that they didn't have any decent load ratings. So I read on some forums (including here) about changing to normal radial sizes. Only problem I would have with that is that these duallys have no space between them. So I would need something like 195/85/16 or something crazy like that. Even then, not sure on the weight.

So I thought I would get some new rims. Except the bolt pattern is very unusual. 6 lugs with a spread between 6.5 to 6.75. I could have measured slightly off, but couldn't find anything like that for rims.

So I figured I could change the hubs and get some normal 8 lug dually rims, but the size of this axle seems to be unique as well. It had a Timken 3579 and a Timken 3580 bearing in it. I can't see any replacement hubs with the same dimensions.

Lastly I thought about changing the axle. Which is still possible, but it is also unusual. The axle is welded to the trailer, no springs, and the main beams are 48" apart. The guy who built this, loved to weld.

So I am asking the experts...

Can I drill out some rims to match these hubs? drill out these hubs to match different rims?
Can I get some replacement tires for these rims?
I figure if I get a pair of good load range E tires, I could just put a single on each side, instead of the dually. I want to haul my 2500-3000lb tractor on this.

Trailers are cheap, should I give up on this, and get a different trailer?

Thanks for any help....

53453 · Oct 23, 2015

Get a different axle. Whatever the hell that was isn't worth dealing with. You could buy a torsion bar axle and fix the fact that there's no suspension or brakes at the same time. Or get some leafs springs and hangers. If you don't need brakes you could even get a full floating dually axle out of a truck, preferably with the wheels and tires still on it.

sterlingfire · Oct 23, 2015

I concur. Get a 5k lbs axle and be done with that odd ball piece of shit. Maybe even a 7500 lbs axle just to over kill it. Don't do torsion if leafs won't make it too tall.

randee · Oct 23, 2015

DirtyComanche said:
Get a different axle. Whatever the hell that was isn't worth dealing with. You could buy a torsion bar axle and fix the fact that there's no suspension or brakes at the same time. Or get some leafs springs and hangers. If you don't need brakes you could even get a full floating dually axle out of a truck, preferably with the wheels and tires still on it.

Thanks for the input.

Looking to do this as cheap as possible. What kind of weight could i put on a dually out of a truck? Would be nice to get some springs out of it as well. Any gems i could find in the junkyard to solve my problem?

randee · Oct 23, 2015

sterlingfire said:
I concur. Get a 5k lbs axle and be done with that odd ball piece of shit. Maybe even a 7500 lbs axle just to over kill it. Don't do torsion if leafs won't make it too tall.

Thanks for the info, ya... this is one odd ball p o s.
It's a 3in OD axle so it;s pretty beefy. Same thing with the hub, its bigger than the ones i could find for a replacement.

I am thinking i would need 7000lbs or so. I just want to haul my tractor which is about 3000lbs at most. Not sure how much the trailer weighs, but it is heavy. I would guess the trailer is at least 2,000. So i am thinking I would need at least 7,000. I have seen some heavy duty tires with a load limit of 3500lbs each. So i wouldn't even need a dually if i had a 7k axle with some decent tires.

Any ideas on salvaging an axle to save money? Semi trailer axle? mobile home axle?

sterlingfire · Oct 23, 2015

I would go to your local trailer BUILDER and show him detailed pics of what you have. Tell them you want a 7500# load rated axle. They can make you an axle for you. You should go with brakes imo. They're very helpful. Remember that cheap fixes often result in poor operation, and short life spans. I doubt you'll be getting a torsion axle for that kind of weight rating.

53453 · Oct 24, 2015

randee said:
Thanks for the input.

Looking to do this as cheap as possible. What kind of weight could i put on a dually out of a truck? Would be nice to get some springs out of it as well. Any gems i could find in the junkyard to solve my problem?

8000+ pounds for most. An old GM 14 Bolt is rated for 8600lbs. You can find these axles for only a couple hundred bucks, somebody that's parting out an old dually would have what you need.

The only problem is you won't have brakes, unless you buy an electric over hydro setup or something.

Honestly, a real trailer axle is probably a better bet, unless you have no money and don't care about brakes. As somebody else said, they're helpful, and they definitely will increase the lifespan of people that are around the trailer. :laughing:

I don't know what you paid for that trailer, but there was a reason I bought a brand new trailer when I did. Basically, people want way too much money for garbage.

amgraham · Oct 24, 2015

I would scrap that shit and just get a cheap car trailer, especially since you're only hauling a 3K lb tractor and you don't really need a tilt deck for that. You didn't have any overall pics but am I to understand from your description that it is a single axle trailer? If so that means you'll probably have a lot of tongue weight unless you balance the load perfect, which may be hard with as beefy as that frame looks, and a tilt deck.

Or, fuck it and grab a later model dually rear out of a 1 ton truck or something and throw it under.. Most of those are rated for better than 7K in the bed. Might be hard to find one cheap though. Then you would still have an oddball that's harder to use than a normal trailer (and heavy). Just my $0.02 :flipoff2:

sterlingfire · Oct 24, 2015

Dual axles would make it much easier to get the 7k load rating. Plus as mentioned above, it will be easier to load for proper tongue weight. But since we have no clue as to length or any pics of the overall unit, it's hard to really recommend anything.

randee · Oct 24, 2015

amgraham said:
I would scrap that shit and just get a cheap car trailer, especially since you're only hauling a 3K lb tractor and you don't really need a tilt deck for that. You didn't have any overall pics but am I to understand from your description that it is a single axle trailer? If so that means you'll probably have a lot of tongue weight unless you balance the load perfect, which may be hard with as beefy as that frame looks, and a tilt deck.

Or, fuck it and grab a later model dually rear out of a 1 ton truck or something and throw it under.. Most of those are rated for better than 7K in the bed. Might be hard to find one cheap though. Then you would still have an oddball that's harder to use than a normal trailer (and heavy). Just my $0.02 :flipoff2:

thanks for the input... ya, might just come to that...
i will upload some pics of it..
8'x16' trailer
ya, you can get a car trailer so cheap, it makes it hard to invest the time and money in this trailer. I paid $500 for it, just made a mistake on this bastard.

randee · Oct 24, 2015

Man I am bummed... Just wrote out a response and then my computer crashed. It never crashes.... Now I have to remember what I typed.

It doesn't have brakes now, but I think it should. Also, I think some springs would help as well.

I guess it comes down to this, if I get a what it takes:
new axle, rims, tires, brakes
will it be worth what I put into it?
Looks like I can get a 8 lug axle for about $400 with brakes. If I got that some new lumber and a paint job Ill have over $1,000 in it. Might be better to sell it for scrap and invest in a different trailer.

I also wanted to say, that I really appreciate everyone's help. This thing has really driven me insane. It's been a nightmare. Spent a lot of time looking at tires and talking to people trying to get a substitute that wouldn't rub on the dually rims. Reading in this forum and others.

sterlingfire · Oct 24, 2015

Yeah, I don't know. It looks like there's a lot of metal there, but it doesn't look like it was built very well. The axle is too far forward. Guaranteed you'll swing the ass end into something with the tail swing that thing has. The out riggers have no vertical bracing, so that makes me question the load rating of the deck. I suppose the wood will help with that. It's going to sit higher with leaf springs, making the tilt bed useless. It might be a losing battle. Maybe try to sell it and get your money back? Good luck

randee · Oct 24, 2015

sterlingfire said:
Yeah, I don't know. It looks like there's a lot of metal there, but it doesn't look like it was built very well. The axle is too far forward. Guaranteed you'll swing the ass end into something with the tail swing that thing has. The out riggers have no vertical bracing, so that makes me question the load rating of the deck. I suppose the wood will help with that. It's going to sit higher with leaf springs, making the tilt bed useless. It might be a losing battle. Maybe try to sell it and get your money back? Good luck

Ya, it's a bummer.
Like I said, I only drove it once. It seemed easy enough to drive though. I am familiar with driving my dad's dual axle 16' car hauler trailer and it drover very similarly.
As far as the bracing, my little tractor only has a 45" width, so the tires should be pretty close to those main beams. Whoever built it did get that deck centered nicely. You can tilt it with one hand. If I had a hydraulic pump, I'd bet I could get that cylinder to work.

If I could find some damn tires that would work it'd be fine for what I need it to do.

So what's the price of scrap?

I could try and sell it. Maybe I could get a couple hundred bucks out of it or something.

sterlingfire · Oct 24, 2015

Scrap is ultra low right now.

amgraham · Oct 24, 2015

Yeah, looks like scrap in your area would be about $30 right now if it weighs 2000 lbs. That sucks. Maybe put it back up for sale and see if you can find another hopeful sucker like yourself to bail you out :flipoff2:

FWIW the wheels look like the same thing on dump trucks and stuff from the 50s and 60s. Maybe find an old truck junkyard somewhere and see if you can find some wheels with better tires? I used to do that when I had an old flat bed with split rims.. I would just buy used rims and tires and run 'em till they popped or spun. Cheaper and easier than finding someone to mount split rims. Still, most everything you will find will be old and probably dryrotted.

randee · Oct 24, 2015

Thanks for the suggestion. I will talk to some people at the junkyard, maybe they can save my bacon.

Wisers · Oct 27, 2015

My fil has what look like the same rims on a large ford truck. 50s or 60s id say its a 3 or 5 ton

Are they split rim?

HAPPYJOHN · Oct 27, 2015

Wisers said:
My fil has what look like the same rims on a large ford truck. 50s or 60s id say its a 3 or 5 ton

Are they split rim?

Split rim is pretty much a given, based on the look of that axle.

Count me as another vote to drop back and punt this to someone else, and look for a different trailer, closer to your needs.

Wisers · Oct 27, 2015

They almost look like they have a drop center in the picture. They be worth something to someone if theyre off an old ford.

sjracer · Oct 27, 2015

to bad you aren't closer, I have a set of 3500LB axes/tires/wheels. would cost too much to ship though, and I think one is bent.

call Bill at https://www.trailerplans.com/ he's a good ol boy to deal with, and if you have a wherehouse local sometimes he can work a deal with ya.

here's a kit for $958. has everything you would need: https://www.trailerplans.com/index....kits/5216-flat-deck-trailer-kits-7000lb-capacity/aKit5216DELUXE-detail?Itemid=0

Odd Bolt Pattern / Tire Size

randee

53453

sterlingfire

randee

randee

sterlingfire

53453

amgraham

sterlingfire

randee

randee

sterlingfire

randee

sterlingfire

amgraham

randee

Wisers

HAPPYJOHN

Wisers

sjracer

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