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05 dodge kingpin axle leaf spring swap

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Slim-Whitey

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
right, so I'm in a hurry, but here's the quick deal. Firstly, truck is a 95, not an 05.

-putting a 92 kingpin dodge axle under my truck.
-leafs are in, 205 T case is in, perches are moved outward 2.5" to fit leafs
-OEM steering arm doesn't come close to working.

I need a forward facing, raised steering arm getting me about 3" of raise from the knuckle surface to the bottom of the arm.
no one makes such an arm, and anyone who makes a flat or slight raise arm says I cannot use them safely with a block or shim.

What do, pirate 4x4?

here's what I'm fighting with.
Image


I'll post a proper build thread soon. I'm just short on time right now.
Thank in advance. so far I've done this build completely blind.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
let me just get this straight. . .
you want me to unbolt the hangers, undo the shackles, and go back completely to square one with this swap because. . .. I used a mounting system that old dodges and 90s jeeps used? This was the easiest way to mount the springs level. shackle in the rear and hanger up front would require a piss load of lift. Or mounting the shackle off a bracket on the inside of the frame, which I have no room to do. I'm after a stock height truck (and like this, I actually got it within 3/4 of an inch).

I don't want to sound like a mouthy bastard, but. . . this is what I came up with. this is what I could do.

as for the welds, this is a better photo, of the other side of the same perch. If they aren't good enough I'll get the welder to fix them up when I get him to put in the end pieces on the perches.
Image


right, after all that, do you know of a steering arm that I what I need? or am I going to a machinist to have one made?

I should clarify: this isn't a hardcore or even softcore wheeler. My truck doesn't see mud up to the bumper or rocks bigger than the wheels. it'll be lucky to ever see a locker in either axle. I came here because I need a few offroad style parts to complete the build.
 
#4 · (Edited)
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Discussion starter · #5 ·
I'm just shy of being able to go lock to lock on stock wheels. I figured I'd need something with some negative offset to clear. That,and I am planning on going to slightly narrower tires as well.

I used a stick welder for the perches, set to a little hot, and did a pass with a fast freezing rod (6013 I believe) first, and then the "farmer standard" 7018 over top of that.

That said, I am no professional. If they are truly scary looking to my welder, I'll get him to fix them up. He just wasn't easily available when I put them on.

As for the steering, I was planning on simply doing a crossover setup, from pitman to passenger side ( going to the drivers side would make the steering link excessively short). I only took the photo of the drivers side since that is the OEM steer side.

Thanks for the help. I was running into issues with the taller blocks as the studs they use are not long enough for some steering arms. And with a block I'm insistent on ARP studs.

Contrary to how it may seem, quality is a first concern.
 
#6 ·
Slim-****** said:
I'm just shy of being able to go lock to lock on stock wheels. I figured I'd need something with some negative offset to clear. That,and I am planning on going to slightly narrower tires as well.

I used a stick welder for the perches, set to a little hot, and did a pass with a fast freezing rod (6013 I believe) first, and then the "farmer standard" 7018 over top of that.

That said, I am no professional. If they are truly scary looking to my welder, I'll get him to fix them up. He just wasn't easily available when I put them on.

As for the steering, I was planning on simply doing a crossover setup, from pitman to passenger side ( going to the drivers side would make the steering link excessively short). I only took the photo of the drivers side since that is the OEM steer side.

Thanks for the help. I was running into issues with the taller blocks as the studs they use are not long enough for some steering arms. And with a block I'm insistent on ARP studs.

Contrary to how it may seem, quality is a first concern.
Click to expand...
The welds looked like 110v self shield fluxcore. If the welds were burned in " hot" your probably fine. A single 7018 pass with 5/32 rod (150-160 amps) would have been sufficient.

If your against blocks and don't want to do something custom, this is all I see that is applicable. Too bad its out of stock. D60036 RAISED HIGH STEER ARM - D60 King Pin
 
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Discussion starter · #7 · (Edited)
Hahaha no no, it was a stick welder (an old one, but it works great), set to... I think 140amp, and the rods were I believe 3/16 core (I've never seen rods that were thicker than 3/16...) I couldn't get larger in town. I know they were "rated" for the amperage I used.
I had to put the project on hold late in the summer. I welded those perches in September. I truly don't remember the details of a few things

If that isn't sufficient I'll have to get larger rod.

I'm a newbie at this game, but I try very hard to err on the side of overkill.

As for those arms, they are made by ORU, and they won't have any in till February. I've been looking for a while.
 
#8 ·
6013 is a filler rod as is 7018 with medium penetration .Depending on the thickness of the perch, 3/32 or 1/8" 7018 would have been fine. Not sure if boons meant 5/32 or 3/32. 7018 likes to be on the hot side. 140 seems a bit cold for a 3/16 rod depending on the type. You should run your weld to the end of the joint. The reality is the penetration and the thickness of the weld only needs to match the thinnest material in the joint. Excessive thickness in the joint will not make it any stronger. What is welded looks sufficient in the second picture. (Can't really see the first pic too well. )
 
Discussion starter · #10 · (Edited)
I didn't run to the end of the piece because the fabricator made the diameter of the perch surface a bit big.

It is run as far as the steel touches the tube, which is in itself a larger surface than the OEM joint by a large amount. I'm also having end caps put in the perches once I am ready for final assembly, to keep them from potentially folding over or crushing.
I really thought I did OK on this. Heh.

Duly noted about the polarity. Thanks!

Boon, I searched around here for a basic blueprint for a steering arm, found something. Gonna see what I can make. With the US exchange rate, it'll probably be cheaper!
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Good to know there's less chance of it being screwed up than if it had been with "110v self shielded wire". ;)

As for my steering arm, guess I'll see about getting one made.

Could also use hubs, since I made a poor decision and traded my dodge drw hubs for Ford srws without knowing the ford's wouldn't work. Che ked the classifieds, not much near me.
 
#14 ·
primalbean said:
6013 is a filler rod as is 7018 with medium penetration .Depending on the thickness of the perch, 3/32 or 1/8" 7018 would have been fine. Not sure if boons meant 5/32 or 3/32. 7018 likes to be on the hot side. 140 seems a bit cold for a 3/16 rod depending on the type. You should run your weld to the end of the joint. The reality is the penetration and the thickness of the weld only needs to match the thinnest material in the joint. Excessive thickness in the joint will not make it any stronger. What is welded looks sufficient in the second picture. (Can't really see the first pic too well. )
Click to expand...
No, meant 5/32 not 3/32 or 3/16. 150-160 is well within the parameters for 5/32 7018.
 
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#17 ·
No, I have my own, which look much shorter to me. My arm also swings beside the springs. In my opinion, if you were using a '92 axle, you would have been much better off using the W series spring spacing and fabbed brackets to fit. It's been done before and seemed to work well. As for your situation now, I would just forget that arm and go with crossover steering, which you are probably going to want a year down the road anyway.

Image

Image
 
Discussion starter · #18 · (Edited)
Just went out and looked. My perches are half an inch taller. I had a look in my notebook and it looks like I did it to even out the ride height since I didn't know the steering would be such a fustercluck. At the time when the perches were made I was dealing with springs that were 2 leafs smaller as well. Which, if they had stayed that small, would have given me enough room.
I found they were too light duty, added leafs to bring them up to par (a bit better, actually), and it took some room from me.

The slightly higher perches may have helped with one thing though, in actuality. The extra height will make it easier to clear traditional crossover steering if I must go that route.

Yes I know how the first gens work. A friend owns one. We examined it closely. The positioning of the steering box is completely different, as are many factors, such as frame construction and width. A second Gen frame is spaced wider, and boxed where a first Gen frame is an open C. The 2nd Gen frame moves in sharply for coils and then out again. There is very little that is similar about them.

I attempted not moving the springs outward. I would have needed to make an H shaped hanger that slid up the frame and bolted through with crush sleeves. And I would have ended up with about 4" of lift that I didn't want. This was beyond what I could do.

As for this steering arm, I have no intention of using the OEM arm. I came to this forum wondering if anyone had knowledge of an arm not made by ORU and sold by PartsMike which was what I needed. Which, in this case, is a forward facing, raised high steer arm that has 3" of raise from the knuckle to the bottom of the arm.

If that isn't possible, I'll go to a machinist and have one made, or I'll go with traditional crossover. But due to the drag link angle that would happen, even with a drop pitman, I'm trying very hard to go with a high steer setup because the drag link and tie rod would both be horizontal.
 
#19 ·
Another issue with tall perches, particularly on a front axle, if spring wrap. That can be a nightmare of violently changing alignment specs when coupled with front shackles. I wish you luck, but I think you are going to run into some strange handling characteristics in the end.
 
Discussion starter · #20 · (Edited)
Elwenil said:
Another issue with tall perches, particularly on a front axle, if spring wrap. That can be a nightmare of violently changing alignment specs when coupled with front shackles. I wish you luck, but I think you are going to run into some strange handling characteristics in the end.
Click to expand...
OK. ... that's not something I found out....

You have my attention. I went with 7.5" long perches to help with axle wrap. Wider base and all that jazz.

I'm curious, how would having the shackles front or rearward stop spring wrap? Is it a matter of the rotational force of the driveline acting more easily on a forward shackle?

Also, and I really don't mean to just sluff off what you said, because I'm not, but the handling characteristics of a 6600 pound 160hp lumber wagon don't get much worse or vague than a 2nd Gen ram with worn out steering.
 
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Slim-Whitey
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