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ARB Air Locker / Ford 9" issue

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bigwhitejeep

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have the "old style" (1st generation?) ARB locker in my 9". It came with a brass fitting for the pumpkin that had a one way check valve, presumedly to stop gear oil from spewing back through the airline.

Somewhere along the way the check valve jammed and I was unable to locate a replacement (ARB discontinued them, and I struck out at any of my local shops). ARB suggested I simply remove the check valve and use it 'as is".

So that's what I did, took it out. As I suspected, I now have gear oil constantly filling the airline. It's like I have 2 breather lines now!!

Anyone had this happen to them? Anyone got a fix for this? I am at a loss!

I was referred to this board for help, anyone know of a "techtim" from ARB?

Appreciate any help you have to get this scenario fixed! :confused:
 
#2 ·
Dont bother with techtim, he will just tell you to put a bigger breather on the axle. Seems alot of the 9" lockers are getting alot of oil in them. I am not familiar with the check valve you are talking about, as I have only installed the newer styles, do you have a pic.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
No, no pics, sorry.

I actually had ARB send me the newest brass threaded pumpkin fitting and it is significantly smaller than the one they used on the original (I think it had a 1/2" thread instead of 5/8"), and it didn't have a check valve in it. That lead me to believe there was no reason I couldn't go ahead and reuse my larger fitting minus the valve. WRONG!

Incidentally, I have 1/2" airline on as my breather! That not big enough? :D
 
#4 ·
Is this problem an indication of the o-rings failing? If so, are they failing due to normal wear or damage prior to/during installation? In a different thread, Gearman discussed replacing the o-rings with positive results but I don't believe Tim ever agreed, disputed or offered a different suggestion. I'd like to hear more about this problem.
 
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Discussion starter · #5 ·
I ended up calling ARB in Seattle, they are apparently working on a 3rd generation 9" unit that is due out "soon".

That said, I told him what was happening and suggested that if they still had 1st generation o-rings and the pumpkin fittings around I'd swap them in. Luckily they did...I think he said they have 10 o-rings left and only a handful of fittings. They are enroute to me as we speak, I'll let you know if this fixes the problem.
 
#6 ·
Puffdragon said:
Dont bother with techtim, he will just tell you to put a bigger breather on the axle. Seems alot of the 9" lockers are getting alot of oil in them. I am not familiar with the check valve you are talking about, as I have only installed the newer styles, do you have a pic.
Click to expand...
Yeah, don't bother with me, I'll only tell you how to fix the damn thing... :flipoff2:
 
#7 ·
bigwhitejeep said:
Somewhere along the way the check valve jammed and I was unable to locate a replacement (ARB discontinued them, and I struck out at any of my local shops). ARB suggested I simply remove the check valve and use it 'as is".
Click to expand...
Who did you talk to here that said they were discontinued?

The check valve is still available... part number 170601.

I do agree with removing the check valve, they were a band-aid designed by an old engineer of ours and it didn't fix the problem, only recycled the oil back to the diff. The problem with them is that many people won't change their fluid so the check valves gum up with crap and the valves start to stick.
 
#9 ·
bigwhitejeep said:
I ended up calling ARB in Seattle, they are apparently working on a 3rd generation 9" unit that is due out "soon".

That said, I told him what was happening and suggested that if they still had 1st generation o-rings and the pumpkin fittings around I'd swap them in. Luckily they did...I think he said they have 10 o-rings left and only a handful of fittings. They are enroute to me as we speak, I'll let you know if this fixes the problem.
Click to expand...
3rd generation coming out soon? Sorry, but no major change to the 9" other than upgrading the 31 spline unit to comonize parts with the 35 spline unit and that was done a few months ago.

I asked around to see who talked to someone with an older 9". It was one of my techs, Robbie, who talked with you. He not only told you the valve was available, but has one coming to you in your order.
 
#10 ·
Paul cj$ said:
Is this problem an indication of the o-rings failing? If so, are they failing due to normal wear or damage prior to/during installation? In a different thread, Gearman discussed replacing the o-rings with positive results but I don't believe Tim ever agreed, disputed or offered a different suggestion. I'd like to hear more about this problem.
Click to expand...
Pumping oil is not typically a sign of worn O-rings, an air leak is.

I couldn't agree, dispute or offer a different suggestion as we didn't have all the information on Tisdales diff. Some people may spout off and throw BS info out there, but I don't work that way.

There are 2 types of oil pumping senarios:
#1) Oil oozing out of solenoid when the car is being driven
#2) Oil spitting out only when the solenoid is cycled

#1) This is the most typical scenario and is typically caused by excessive housing pressure. For whatever reason the housing is not venting the pressure through it's breather and finds that it is easier to bypass our seals, carrying oil with it.

#2) Could be a worn seal, a rolled O-ring, a cut, nicked or damaged seal. Often done during installation or servicing of the unit and takes up to 3 mos. before it shows up.
 
#11 ·
Tech Tim said:
I couldn't agree, dispute or offer a different suggestion as we didn't have all the information on Tisdales diff. Some people may spout off and throw BS info out there, but I don't work that way.
Click to expand...
Okay thanks Tim. That makes sense to me and does sound like the most likely reason. It also would suggest that the problem is generic to all models of the locker and not unique to or more frequently occurring with any one particular model.

I'll be taking both of my axles and lockers into the shop this week to get the work done. MIT in El Cajon has done plenty of them so I really don't expect a problem.
 
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#12 ·
Tech Tim said:
Pumping oil is not typically a sign of worn O-rings, an air leak is.

I couldn't agree, dispute or offer a different suggestion as we didn't have all the information on Tisdales diff. Some people may spout off and throw BS info out there, but I don't work that way.

There are 2 types of oil pumping senarios:
#1) Oil oozing out of solenoid when the car is being driven
#2) Oil spitting out only when the solenoid is cycled

#1) This is the most typical scenario and is typically caused by excessive housing pressure. For whatever reason the housing is not venting the pressure through it's breather and finds that it is easier to bypass our seals, carrying oil with it.

#2) Could be a worn seal, a rolled O-ring, a cut, nicked or damaged seal. Often done during installation or servicing of the unit and takes up to 3 mos. before it shows up.
Click to expand...
Tim, I'm having the type 2 problem with an RD23 that started small and now is flowing lots of oil fast. The locker was installed in the 3rd by Mike @ ORS 2.5 years ago and shipped to me in Oklahoma. Is this something easy to fix or does the ARB have to come out and the R&P set-up again?
 
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#13 ·
Tech Tim said:
I couldn't agree, dispute or offer a different suggestion as we didn't have all the information on Tisdales diff. Some people may spout off and throw BS info out there, but I don't work that way.
Click to expand...
so what was the verdict i wouldnt want to through out BS.or did he just need a bigger vent :flipoff2:
 
#14 ·
GearMan said:
so what was the verdict i wouldnt want to through out BS.or did he just need a bigger vent :flipoff2:
Click to expand...

The diff was full of fine metal shavings throughout, including the seal chambers, so you were right :flipoff2: but not for the reason you think :flipoff2: :flipoff2: .

We didn't see the whole diff, so not sure if it was a bearing or the gearset that was going out, though my guess would be a bearing.
 
#15 ·
Tech Tim said:
Who did you talk to here that said they were discontinued?

The check valve is still available... part number 170601.

I do agree with removing the check valve, they were a band-aid designed by an old engineer of ours and it didn't fix the problem, only recycled the oil back to the diff. The problem with them is that many people won't change their fluid so the check valves gum up with crap and the valves start to stick.
Click to expand...
How do I order one of these check valves, which would be a temporary fix until I have the time to replace the seals in my locker? The locker still works fine, but spits a very small amount of oil from the solenoid.
 
#16 ·
Vortec_Cruiser said:
How do I order one of these check valves, which would be a temporary fix until I have the time to replace the seals in my locker? The locker still works fine, but spits a very small amount of oil from the solenoid.
Click to expand...
Ring ARB at the number in my sig line, ask for sales, order pn# 170106.
 
#17 ·
Tim,
On your website you state the following, regarding soft line installation:
If you find yourself with this problem, just push the line up a little further, cut off the pinched section and reinstall. This time only finger tighten the center nut down until it stops, then give it a 1/2 to 3/4 turn with a wrench. Loosen it back up push the line up and you should only have the same amount of crush as the line on the left shows in the picture above.

I don't quite follow the last sentence. How much is it retightened after you "loosen it back up?"

I found the tips on this site helpful.
 
#18 ·
Vortec_Cruiser said:
I don't quite follow the last sentence. How much is it retightened after you "loosen it back up?"
Click to expand...

Tighten back to until it stops and then just a hair more. You've already put the small indentation in it, so you don't need to tighten it past stop any more except to put a little preload on the O-ring.
 
#19 ·
Tech Tim said:
The diff was full of fine metal shavings throughout, including the seal chambers, so you were right :flipoff2: but not for the reason you think :flipoff2: :flipoff2: .

We didn't see the whole diff, so not sure if it was a bearing or the gearset that was going out, though my guess would be a bearing.
Click to expand...
better to be a little right then not at all :flipoff2:
 
#20 ·
GearMan said:
better to be a little right then not at all :flipoff2:
Click to expand...

And that is why I said "I couldn't agree, dispute or offer a different suggestion as we didn't have all the information on Tisdales diff. Some people may spout off and throw BS info out there, but I don't work that way." :flipoff2:
 
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