P pump has multiple pistons actuaed by camshaft basically
VE pump uses a single piston that has it's output routed to the appropiate cylinder by a disc.

bottom line, P pump pushes more fuel.
If you're not wanting a hot rod diesel than VE pump is cool.

VE pump disassembly:
VE PUMP DISASSEMBLY - YouTube

P pump disassembly:


VE PUMP DISASSEMBLY - YouTube

 

p pump disassembly here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYFfMWh_nP8

stupid board keeps changing the other url to match the first.

 

Thanks for the links, I will sit down and watch them tonight

 

The one reliability thing that I've read is that if you lose a lift pump (or a fuel line) and starve a VE pump for fuel, the engine will shut off. Re-fill, prime, and you're good to go. If you starve a P-pump for fuel, the P-pump dies. May be a wives tail, or may be legit, but you see it quite a bit on the forums.

Mike

 

I've had really good luck with VE's and know them a lot better than P-pumps.

People are hung up on the P-pump being able to make more power, which it can but the VE's do quite well when massaged right.

The biggest thing I like about VE's is they seem to sell quite a bit cheaper than a P-pump engine.

The only hard parts on my '91 were injectors and a bigger turbo and it would light the 35" tires in 1st, 2nd or 3rd and was extremely reliable for the 250k miles I put on it. Even when my lift pump died it still got me home.

It would out pull my buddies '11 dmax on long hills, and would fire right up at 0° without touching the grid heater.

Since you said you aren't looking for hotrod I think you'll be more than happy with a VE powered engine, especially after the 454.

My buddy swapped a VE powered 6bt into his '77 crew cab dually and couldn't be happier, he went from 8 mpg to 19 empty and 5 mpg towing to 12.

Don't get me wrong for the same money I'd go with a P-pump but when I see them around here they're $500-1500 more than VE's.


You're thinking of a VP-44 on the '98-'02 24 valve trucks.

You swapped a VE pump onto your 01 24 valve, do tell please.............

My guess is he had a #53 block and just swapped engines.

 

VE pumps can reach a solid towing 325 HP (upper limit of your required HP) with good airflow in and out of the motor and a good intercooler/turbo setup. There are many documented efforts out there.

I prefer VE because they run smooth (one plunger for all cyl instead of six separate ones) and have dynamic timing advance which really improves driveability/grunt at low rpms with a stick shift. Because of this and the fact that you are pushing less fuel, you generally get better mpg with a VE.

A downfall is that the VE pump is fuel lubricated so it might be wise to invest in some stanadyne lubricity formula whilst using the new ULSD that is out there.

The P pump is engine oil lube'd and is generally considered a multifuel pump that will run on everything from dry jet A, kerosene, b100, to ULSD without issue.

I have limited experience first hand with the p pump.

 

I've heard different than that for the p-pump. The p-pump will still run with bad lift pump but will be down on power and not necessary will damage/destroy the pump. You must be thinking about the vp44 pump in the 24 valve 2nd gen Rams.

By the way I don't see why VE can't serve you well so buy it and start swapping! If I understand correctly, the VE pumped 12v cummins tend to get real good mileage and easier to start than the p-pumped 12v.

 

I've heard different than that for the p-pump. The p-pump will still run with bad lift pump but will be down on power and not necessary will damage/destroy the pump. You must be thinking about the vp44 pump in the 24 valve 2nd gen Rams.

Oh, that may be the case!

(My only real experience is with the VE in a first gen that I had. I haven't had any of the other engines or pumps)

By the way I don't see why VE can't serve you well so buy it and start swapping! If I understand correctly, the VE pumped 12v cummins tend to get real good mileage and easier to start than the p-pumped 12v.

I have read this, as well! Stock, mine got really good mileage (21mpg no matter how I drove, on a stock '90 4x4 5-speed with 4.10 gears), and I never had any issue starting it, even without being plugged in, but I never tried below 0degF.

Mike

Mike

 

Both will do well. Ve may do alittle better on fuel mileage. I prefer a p pump myself

 

Both will do well. Ve may do alittle better on fuel mileage.

this... if you've found a good deal on a VE, jump on it.

I daily drive a p-pumped 24 valve.

 

i my self would go with a p-pump, with the free mods on the pump and add a good intake and 4in exhaust you will have a good reliable tow rig.
my pump an motor currently have 250k on them an have minimal mods, i dd my rig ATLEAST 60miles a day and have yet to have any issues. competitiondiesil.com has tons of info and tech on each of these pumps, good luck on your build it should be a sweet piece when your finished

 

I have 3 VE trucks. The 6BT is awesome regardless of the pump type.

 

Ive got two VE trucks and a p-pump truck. I've never seen a real diffetence between how they start...

 

I have had VE,P and common rail Cummins.. IMHO the VE started easiest and got the best mileage and could be turned up some with just basic hand tools.. The P pump took a little longer to start and was down a couple miles per gallon but could be turned up more than the VE pump, and can be made to run without any electric power other than for the starter.. for a swap I prefer the P pump , however, the swap I am currently doing is with the VE pump because that is what I had on hand.. My comment on starting is based on that my 93 with the VE pump I could just hit the key and let go and it would be running.. my 94 I had to hold the key for a second and let it turn over for a couple revolutions before it would start.. not saying either one was hard to start just that on would start quicker than the other..

 

I drove my VE pumped '01 all the way from PA to MA (about 7 hour drive) with 0 fuel pressure when my lift pump failed.

Still running that same VE pump and that was about 50k miles ago.

I think they deserve a bit more credit than people give them.

 

You swapped a VE pump onto your 01 24 valve, do tell please.............

 

I've got a p-pump in my 97 suburban, but I wouldn't hesitate at all to drop the VE motor in your truck if I were you. Your stated criteria for simplicity and economy is answered with the VE motor. Sure, you can get more out of a p-pumped motor, but that wasn't your question.

 

Yup I was thinking of the VP-44 pump on my truck after reading bartons post.

DUH.

 

Why not common rail? It is superior in every way. The electronics are not the nightmare people make them out to be.

 

IMO the common-rail Cummins seem to be a bit too "techy" (and expensive) for such a old truck that the OP are wanting to replace the TBI 454 with.

IMO 99+ Super Duty are the only good candidate for the common-rail Cummins swap, because the Duramax is decent enough to not require the Cummins swap like the older non-Duramax GM diesels or gas hog gassers.

 

I suppose it depends on the budget, but the cost difference is not huge. I'm partial to the common rail, they are much quieter, cleaner, and more fuel efficient. The only significant cost increase would be an injector repair, but if you use clean fuel it should not be an issue.

If you don't mind noise and smoke the older 5.9's are rock solid.

With the increasing popularity of Cummins swaps, the older 5.9's are getting more expensive because of the simple swap thought while the 6.7's are failrly reasonable because of the difficulty mentality.

 

ve pumps are gay. p pump it and be done. you may want more power down the road. they are very reliable and have damn near unlimited amount of shit you can do to them.. and a p pump will not die from being ran dry thats the vp44

 

WOW, I am overwhelmed with all the tech you added to this thread. :shaking:

Let me guess you have stacks and 22s on your truck that gets 30 mpg brah? Go roal your coal on one of those cummings circle jerk sites

 

VE pumps are tough. I had fuel issues(pre pump) and starved one multiple times and it still fires on the first crank every time. The rebuild kits are cheap as in $20 so you can afford to have one in the glovebox in case you need it. With a little bit of work(hand tools) they can make more fuel that a stock motor can use.

I have zero experience with a p-pump but have heard they are nice. I'm betting you won't be disappointed with either.

VE's look cool painted too. :homer:

 

every ve pump i have heard started right up on the first crank whether it was cold out or not, the p pumps always take longer to start.

for your desired use i would go with which ever pump happens to be on the motor you get

 

Thanks for all the info.

I am watching for a deal as diesels here are simply ridiculous, always have been.

So, I am looking at paying out in the 2-3.5k range for a P-pump truck with a manual in it. My NV4500 needs quite a bit to work behind this motor. I am also watching for a Ford F700 or the like that has a 6 speed Eaton in it. Would love to get that swapped in.

I will report back with what I find.

 

I am also watching for a Ford F700 or the like that has a 6 speed Eaton in it. Would love to get that swapped in...

Where are you located? I know where a 6 speed Eaton happens to be sitting, complete with dual disc button clutch and B-Series Cummins adapter...:grinpimp:

 

Well hopefully I like a VE pump because a good deal just popped up on one, I am trying to get it lined up so we shall see.

I see a lot on the net claiming for simplicity and reliable power, the VE pump has better starting, better mileage and the dynamic timing. I may try it out.

I appreciate the help!


Edit: headed to buy a motor tonight!

 

I just sold my 92' with VE, I was totally happy with it. It would tow like crazy, never got too hot, stupid reliable. I would not hesitate on swapping a VE. Only thing some states (like CA) require a swapped in motor to be same year or newer. If I were to build another "tow" vehicle I would not think twice about running another VE. My plan was for a good reliable tow truck 1st and everything else 2nd. We think it made ~300+-HP.

The mods I made if your interested.

-5x.012 injectors
-HX super40 turbo
-Pump advanced 1 tooth and clocked to touch the head
-Cummins piston lift pump
-03' intake elbow (not sure if this helped anything, but I needed the 3" inlet)
-All 3" IC plumbing
-Super Duty all aluminum IC
-4" Down pipe and 5" with muffler to the rear
-Chevy 4x4 NV4500 with HD dodge input
-Ford 205 with short 32spline input
-HP 60 Front 14b rear both with 4.10's and detroits
-37x17 toyo's


Build is in my sig

 

I saw your build, damn you and your 4 hour to read blazer build thread followed by your 2 hour to read truck build. I have read them both.

I will need them, the motor is at my house, unloaded last night. Supposedly only has 145k on it, guy was very nice and I felt I could trust him. The motor has either been steam cleaned with a toothbrush, or was incredibly clean. Even the hard to reach areas you would not hit at the car wash are clean. The oil is dark and smells like diesel fuel, but the shaft in the turbo does not move. I think I got a good motor!

Now I just need that Dana 70 and FSO trans...

I may just stick with my NV4500, I have a bastard year though so it needs not only a new input shaft but holes drilled and the bearing retainer opened up. Also it has carbon syncros and with only 60k miles needs them swapped.

 

Did you get a factory I/C or non I/C engine?

A few little things are different between them.

 

non I/C, read a few things but still learning

Where are you located? I know where a 6 speed Eaton happens to be sitting, complete with dual disc button clutch and B-Series Cummins adapter...:grinpimp:

In Utah, whats the price?

 

Update.