It's important to add, the rear 4-link (vs A-arm) will allow much more wheel travel

 

But will the CVs be able to handle the extra wheel travel without making the car extra wide?

 

Not with our current frame. We just would have to make the front more narrow to allow longer A-arms (which we plan on doing anyways). The back isnt an issue.

So, we can get a good bit of travel with A-arms (but maybe not quite as much) and when maxed, we all know wouldnt be as strong as a straight axle

 

i say hook yourself up with some small aisan axles and build the only sideXside that actually performs comfortably and well on the rocks. with KOH and ultra4 its already been proven that solid axle rigs can go plenty fast. every company making UTVs now makes almost the exact same thing. make a performance vehicle not a tractor. suspension bench seat solid axles and room for larger tires, good approach and departure angles. if you put a sway bar in it make sure you can pull a pin to disconnect it. how about a separate set of shock tabs for different ride heights? low enough gearing that its still fine even with a larger tire like a 34-35".

just build it like you have to do with the speed, build it small but easy to modify and upgrade later. like sell the axle bracket kits so people can swap in toyota axles or something. im just thinking out loud here. ive wanted to produce my own vehicles for a while just dont have the resources.

 

I agree. Most if not all KOH UTV's have Independent. Why???

Then you’d have to get by the mindset of the general public who may be looking at getting one. People used to prefer straight over independent (at least on the back) then now most think independent is better.

We can make the ride as comfortable with a straight vs independent. As I see it, only downfall with a straight is ground clearance.

I appreciate the comments. Think out loud

 

i have to agree with powerline-k9. i dont think that the general public cares a whole lot one way or another if it has IFS or a Solid Axle. solid axles front and rear would make it the first of its kind for sure. a mass produced rock crawling buggy and iff designed/tuned right it could go plenty fast. maybe find the company who makes the samurai axles and order a bunch of them. they make alloy shafts and have a pretty decent aftermarket following.

 

thing i am interested in is the steering? would it have a stand alone hydraulic pump so we can upgrade it down the line for full hydro steering?

 

It would be have electric power steering. Has to be self-centering and cost effective. That should be sufficient enough on something of that size. If not.. thats what testing is for

 

i was looking at some pictures and this picture of a samurai made me think of this thread

http://jeepers.web.fc2.com/photo4x4/2010tone01/2/images/img0025.jpg

 

Look into the Tracker/Sidekick under Suzuki forum and over at Zukiworld.com. Mike Hagen at RPM (Real Performance Machines) does exactly like you are wanting. He uses the Tracker platform to get it done.
He stretches and relocates the front portion of the frame and driveline. Uses a 4dr rear driveshaft as a front driveshaft. Mods the CV setup to accept the stock Toyota IFS cv shafts which are nearly 2x as big as Suzukis. Keeps stock strut front/coil suspension. Keep stock rear 3-link setup on straight axle or mod it. Keeps 4-cyl/trans/tcase. Swap gears in tcase and axles to awesomely low and lockers into axles. Mods sheetmetal to his liking.
Streetlegal from the start and to a point at the end. Little wide for a SXS but small for a street vehicle.

 

how sweet would it be to buy a new sammy sized four wheeler, just think 4 seat rzr with sami axles , 2 or 3 cyl. motor 6 speed trans ... all going to a separate t-case oh i want one:smokin:

 

Keep the ideas coming...

 

Some have built a single/dual seat buggy of sorts with Toyota axles, Samurai axles, and even D44 axles out of something. They build using Honda engine/trans, Geo Metro (3cyl) engine/trans, Mitsubishi engine/trans, and newest is Acura reverse spin engine/trans. Many keep the stock trans but since its a trans axle from a front wheel drive vehicle, the engine/trans are turned sideways in the frame, the trans axle is locked in both directions, but they also put in a splined slip to disengage the driveshafts when necessary. Some have even used an indendent suspended diff housing as the transfer case in the buggy. Being so light, gear ratios usually have to be on the high side otherwise, there is too much ratio.

SxSs are a hot thing. Little too costly for a lot of people and not really acceptable for street use. Production is good as many rather spend their money than to build (expense of tools, shop space, etc). So at some point there will be a hybrid that brings the extreme of the SxS to the environment of an offroad buggy. I know there are several cities throughout the US that accept ATV/UTVs as street use vehicles. There are cities now accepting the small utility trucks as well. In time, they will be street legal. Take a look at the scooters design from a moped standpoint. Even pedal bikes have the option of electric motors. Its all to appease the consumer.

 

What I would like to see is the 4seaters get an option for a rear steer setup. Add the long travel suspension and some elect/hydraulic rear steer setup similar to that of the GM trucks years ago.

 

Transmission would be a much bigger selling point to me than the rear suspension. You give me some gears and a clutch and Ill be willing to fork out the dough these things raise. Although I think if you had enough travel the IRS/IFS would be fine but a solid axle rear would be alot stronger I would think. Reliability would also pay a big part I mean almsot all of these utvs have there problems the most well known being the front diff on the rzr if you make a good product that can take a beating and handle it it would sell itself.

 

Mudders in the south want a atv motor because they are sealed much better.

I have been wanting to build a buggy like this: Use my 650 prairie motor in the shop feeding a sami t-case and sami axles in a tube frame. I think it would be killer. stock the 650 prairie motor puts out about the same power as a sami motor, but can be modded to 100hp.

 

tube frame mini sami is what you should go for

 

I just came across this thread and I say build them.

I have been doing tons of research and idea gathering on a similar buggy build, but mine isn't for production purposes, just me and some friends.

So far it goes like this:

Slightly wider than a Rzr with about a 3" longer wheelbase.
linked "Arched" solid axles using IFS components to offer more ground clearance front and rear.
Four wheel steering, setup for front only until you want the rear to help.
Automatic belt drive similar to current UTV's
139hp fuel injected 1000cc Rotax twin from an Aprilia motorcycle
A sub tranny that will go from a 75ish top speed to about 10mph in low range
front, rear or all wheel drive so digs are an option
14-16 inches of wheel travel at both ends with fox air shocks
sway bar disconnects
30ish" tires
I am also going to build it with deep back spaced wheels so that a simple tire/wheel change has it over 60 inches wide and ready for the sand.

I have it all ready to start from a design stand point, I just need to start gathering parts while I finish the engine swap in my truck.

 

I love that. I'm curious about the geatbox and sub tranny you are considering? Know what kind yet?

 

I would love to see something in the 65" wide range and 80"-90" wheelbase. Big points for me would be ability to hit the trails just like the current SxS's(Jumping/higher speed than crawlers) but still be able to have good wheel travel for the rocks. Also, a small light weight engine with manual or auto tranny option. Also, 2H, 4H, 4L option would be nice. If you can wrap all of that into a nice looking package(even without sheet metal/plastic) for under 20K I think you would steal quite a bit of the UTV market.

Like many others out there. I would love to have something with 2 seats that acts like an ATV but I dont want to shell out 15K on something that is unreliable.

 

Maybe something similar to this. With 12-14 inches of travel. But top speed more like 70-75mph. Oh and 2-seats please.

 

That is one lucky kid! Very cool. Dig on the concept of a street legal (in CA) SxS. Most of the current frames are heavy and/or weak. A nice tube chassis buggy that focuses on light weight without sacrificing strenght would be way cool. Keep it at two seats and make it a roller chassis. Let the end user decide on engine. :smokin:

 

What about an engine that, on a performance curve chart, has 50lb/ft torque from 2000-36000 RPM’s, 1000cc displacement?

How about an automatic, gear-driven transmission in place of the CVT? What is that worth to you?

BTW, has anyone taken off the plastic on a Ranger and see how flimsy and then the frame is?? It has no support for the rocker panel… and the support bar for the roll cage is counter levered! But.. they sell like crazy.

Also, How much torque does a Rotax engine have?

 

The trq curve that low looks good, just wish there was more of it. My 800 Outlander puts out just under 54lb/ft and it weighs far less than a buggy.

I would personally prefer the CVT over the gear griven automatic just because it is always in the right gear at the right time. A good friend and I were discussing the use of an "automatic" in my buggy Saturday and he never really sold me on the idea. I guess I'm just afraid that it would be to much like a Rincon and not deliver a great crawl ratio when needed. But, for the masses it may be a perfect idea.

I have seen a Ranger without the plastic, it is scary how sad they are put together!

The rotax that I'm leaning towards puts out 79lb/ft.

 

What are your thoughts on wheelbase and and width? It would be nice to hit up the ATV trails with this. Also, have you made your decision on IFS/IRS or solid axle?

 

The smaller one, 50" wide x 100" long (68" wheelbase) will have a 4-link. However, we are designing a larger one that will have to be independent. With the engine under/behind the seat, there will not be any room for a 4-link. That said, this one is designed more as a work horse but will be locked, powerful and capable.

Down the road we'll work on a narrower, very powerful machine with us rock guys in mind.

 

Sounds good, be sure to keep us posted as it progresses!

 

Subscribed for sure! Would love to see how this turns out. We have a lot of people that are racing SXS's at the park in our race series and they are pretty much falling apart. It seems like they just can't handle the extended extreme abuse of racing.

 

It seems like they just can't handle the extended extreme abuse of racing.

You got that right. Racing is super tough on them. Would be nice to have the ability to a full tube chassis in the UTV classes.

 

Anyone one here seen the nessy II from Dragonfire racing? A guy I know has one and he had MAJOR Probs with it... DFR did not seem all that interested in making it right either. It would be nice to have a reliable version of the nessy.