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Discussion starter · #21 ·
1uglyranger said:
We already have a competitors only forum, and no one ever uses it. Honestly, Dave has always done a good job, IMO, at listening to concerns/complaints, and giving reasoning for backing his decision, so the private forum isn't always needed, but.... I feel if there is a concern/complaint, it should not be done in a public forum/area. It should be done in private to keep a professional image.
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Yep, I would use the Comp only forum if it was cleaned up and knew that the right audience was being broadcasted to. Right now there are so many members and probably race promoters that have access it would never stay private.
 
#22 ·
lxh0318 said:
So the newest Ultra 4 letter has encouraged us to start a drivers union. This is the only form of Motorsports I have ever been a part of but I know that other forms have these unions set up.

What do we need to do to set this up?

How does it work?

Pirate 4x4 Mods, could we clean out the competitor only forum, or start a new Ultra 4 competitor only forum that you would only gain access to with membership to the Ultra 4 union?

Looking forward to this, and seeing how we can make our sport that much better.
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I hope that this new forum is not private. Promoters kept information from the drivers and it is leading to problems. I would hope the drivers don't keep the fans out of the picture, even if "read only".

~Steve
 
#23 ·
VOFSAR said:
I hope that this new forum is not private. Promoters kept information from the drivers and it is leading to problems. I would hope the drivers don't keep the fans out of the picture, even if "read only".

~Steve
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Not a good idea. Not good for the Racers or Promoters to air their dirty laundry.
 
#24 ·
Provelogear said:
Not a good idea. Not good for the Racers or Promoters to air their dirty laundry.
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I can agree with the airing of dirty laundry, but I think the fans may have some helpful input. I'm on NASCAR Fan Council and have been for years and some of what has been suggested by the council has been implemented. I would hope that fans are taken in to consideration when changes are being considered regarding our off road sport. True fans pay their way in to KOH and other venues, buy gear from vendors and hope we can get a glance of our favorite drivers and the up and comers. I wish all the best to your endeavors to keep our sport fair and alive.

~Steve
 
#25 · (Edited)
I've been a U4 driver for 5 years and never been accepted to the private forum for whatever reason, after asking several times.

That being said, I think a private format for race related discussion, with an agreed upon hierarchy, would be healthy for all involved before situations like the aforementioned de-evolve into a public morass. We can keep our grievances and concerns professionally, or at least have them hidden from the public to some extent, before an overly public release. The only real sticking point would be Dave's (or whoever is concerned and affected) acceptance and utilization of any issues addressed. Be it inter-driver issues, or organizational, I think it would be a healthier format to resolve issues. Honestly, it need not be U4 specific, it could also include werock, BITD, rallyventure etc. Just so we as racers can have a collective voice to ourselves individually, and across the other organizations, in order to keep some consensus of intent, as well as overall organization or events.

just my $0.02 thus far.

~Greg Lundeen
 
#26 ·
Every sport I have competed in has a representative to the organization.
Surfing we had a Surfers Rep
Baseball we had a team captain
Soccer we had a team captain

I think more effective would be a class Rep in each region. That way your not dealing with meetings, dues & being on the East coast not having a real voice if things are going down (meeting) on the West coast.
 
#27 ·
TensoR said:
I've been a U4 driver for 5 years and never been accepted to the private forum for whatever reason, after asking several times.

That being said, I think a private format for race related discussion, with an agreed upon hierarchy, would be healthy for all involved before situations like the aforementioned de-evolve into a public morass. We can keep our grievances and concerns professionally, or at least have them hidden from the public to some extent, before an overly public release. The only real sticking point would be Dave's (or whoever is concerned and affected) acceptance and utilization of any issues addressed. Be it inter-driver issues, or organizational, I think it would be a healthier format to resolve issues. Honestly, it need not be U4 specific, it could also include werock, BITD, rallyventure etc. Just so we as racers can have a collective voice to ourselves individually, and across the other organizations, in order to keep some consensus of intent, as well as overall organization or events.

just my $0.02 thus far.

~Greg Lundeen
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I agree, but the hierarchy should include a way to disseminate non-inflammatory information to the fans.

I didn't know there was a problem until it was put up on the internet, which, caused a lot of confusion with very little information. Too much he said, she said, with no explanation as to what was making some people pissed at Dave and some supporting Dave.

~Steve
 
#28 ·
VOFSAR said:
I agree, but the hierarchy should include a way to disseminate non-inflammatory information to the fans.

I didn't know there was a problem until it was put up on the internet, which, caused a lot of confusion with very little information. Too much he said, she said, with no explanation as to what was making some people pissed at Dave and some supporting Dave.

~Steve
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I completely agree
 
#29 ·
Call it what you will I'm just getting into the u4 scene and a buffer is always a good idea. Most pro sports have some sort of union. I know there are a lot of union haters out there but I also know a lot of weekend racers that are union workers in their regular jobs myself included also there seems to be a large out cry for American made parts in this industry that's what unions are founded on and built this country with. I don't believe that a "closed" forum will ever work it's too easy to screen shot stuff and it quickly spreads like wild fire and words always get twisted. A committee of some sort should be in place.
 
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#31 ·
lxh0318 said:
" I completely botched the competition yellow at Stampede. "
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VOFSAR said:
I can agree with the airing of dirty laundry, but I think the fans may have some helpful input. I'm on NASCAR Fan Council and have been for years and some of what has been suggested by the council has been implemented. I would hope that fans are taken in to consideration when changes are being considered regarding our off road sport. True fans pay their way in to KOH and other venues, buy gear from vendors and hope we can get a glance of our favorite drivers and the up and comers. I wish all the best to your endeavors to keep our sport fair and alive.

~Steve
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Both of these. I'm just a fan, but I've been a competitor and a cone dodger judge in the past. If you guys go underground/private/hidden and spring "comp" yellows on we the fans it's going to hurt the sport. Tell us how to get the most out of your event as a fan with no surprise ruined races and you'll continue to grow.
 
#32 ·
fabrikate_it said:
I don't believe that a "closed" forum will ever work it's too easy to screen shot stuff and it quickly spreads like wild fire and words always get twisted. A committee of some sort should be in place.
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larryboy said:
Both of these. I'm just a fan, but I've been a competitor and a cone dodger judge in the past. If you guys go underground/private/hidden and spring "comp" yellows on we the fans it's going to hurt the sport. Tell us how to get the most out of your event as a fan with no surprise ruined races and you'll continue to grow.
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Frankly, and this might be an unpopular opinion, these comments are WHY it needs to be private. Let the driver's air their grievances, away from the promoters, and let an elected advisory board take those grievances to the promoter.

The "comp yellow," was a promoter decision, not the competitors. This forum will be specifically for the competitors.
 
#33 ·
lxh0318 said:
Yep, I would use the Comp only forum if it was cleaned up and knew that the right audience was being broadcasted to. Right now there are so many members and probably race promoters that have access it would never stay private.
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I agree, I know a lot of the promoters now (Dave included) used to be drivers, and did at some point probably have access to the forum... I know back in the CalRocs days, there was talk in there, and TonyK posted up on the thread (at the time, he was working for CalRocs, but used to compete, so he still had access).
 
#35 ·
Elect two drivers reps. Two people that really want to serve. Guys or Girls that want to make a serious effort and don't mind getting calls and holding firm to what the drivers want regardless of the promoters wishes. Someone's that have the respect of all the drivers.
 
#36 ·
Provelogear said:
I attend more than my fair share of Meetings and this is what works for most.

Election of the board
Working Committee formation
Schedule Meetings (During each Race would probably be the easiest)

Meetings (recommend Robert’s Rules of Order)
Board defines Committees goals

Committees would hash our details and bring to Board
Committees could be base geographically to insure they can meet
Board would present to Ultra4

Lessons Learned (is alway interesting)
Vendors Presentation - 2 Max per meeting 30 minutes (we let them pay for meetings food and drink for the chance to present to us)

Open Discussions for all
This is where issues and ideas are brought to the Organization


There is a lot more than above. This is only what I took from the top of my head.
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That's a good start.
I have been both an Advisory Board member and a Management Union negotiator and a union member.
Unions have a negative connotation and this would not really be a union, but a Divers Association with elected or appointed Representstives, to meet, talk, call with Dave.
There is a need for a mechanism to address certain issues, some can be easily handled prior to events, some come up during an event, some immediately afterwards because the situation has never happenned before.
I think Dave is being gracious to put this out for discussion, it sounds like a proper thing to do...something someone old like Gerald would be good at... ;)
 
#37 ·
Custom Splice said:
/speaking out of turn here/
If your worried about vendors seeing it, what do you do about drivers that are also vendors/sponsors?
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They would have a vested interest both ways but they are only one voice of the hundreds.
 
#38 ·
MoparNorm said:
That's a good start.
I have been both an Advisory Board member and a Management Union negotiator and a union member.
Unions have a negative connotation and this would not really be a union, but a Divers Association with elected or appointed Representstives, to meet, talk, call with Dave.
There is a need for a mechanism to address certain issues, some can be easily handled prior to events, some come up during an event, some immediately afterwards because the situation has never happenned before.
I think Dave is being gracious to put this out for discussion, it sounds like a proper thing to do...something someone old like Gerald would be good at... ;)
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NO! I would not! I like everyone to much! :flipoff2:

And, you suck!

The board needs to be elected by the membership. Regional Reps by 3 or 4 areas. West Central East or NW SW NE SE quadrants. Two REPS each Unlimited and EMC but both Representing their Region. A total of 6-8 people in the board. The board would elect a Chair. That Chair would have final say in case of a tie in voting. The board then will ask for volunteers from membership to seat working Committees.

The Chair or their designated rep meets with Ultra4 or sanctioning body.
 
#39 ·
DOUG38S said:
Elect two drivers reps. Two people that really want to serve. Guys or Girls that want to make a serious effort and don't mind getting calls and holding firm to what the drivers want regardless of the promoters wishes. Someone's that have the respect of all the drivers.
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I think you need more than two, purely to get opinions from multiple regions. One or two from each class would be good as well. Thinking 5 would be a good start (I'm not a fan of even numbers for something like this).

2 - 4400 (1 east, 1 west)
2 - 4500/4600 (1 east, 1 west)
1 - UTV (although I could see UTV growing larger than the other two classes combined in the semi-near future)
 
#40 · (Edited)
Provelogear said:
NO! I would not! I like everyone to much! :flipoff2:

And, you suck!
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LOL!!
Careful! You have meds!!!

OK no co-drivers!
I haven't yet talked to my driver about this, but my first thoughts are Crew Chief or a Team Manager person from each team to meet and select one representative to represent each Class. In each Region.
it has to be representative while not burdening Dave with a gaggle of people talking at the same time.

Oh and in keeping with the spirit of Pirate, you suck too! ;)
 
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