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independent suspension with dana 60 centers?

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meinert

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
well guys, i had an idea and so i did alittle searching and this is all i came up with, and this is exactly what i was thinking about....

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/brandpages/131_0306_walk/

anyone have anything like this? and if so, i would like so see some pics please. im sure yall do, b/c ive heard some talk of hybrid axles before.

what would be the disavantage to this? i know what the disavantages of a normal IFS are (basically you have no force pushing the opposing wheel towards the ground whene flexing, thus cuasing a wheel to become air born faster), so is this the same disadvantage? im sure that these fawkers are extremely stronger, but damn they are expensive. haha

post up
 
#2 ·
why do you want the expense and hassle of IFS when it's been shown not to work as well as solid axles?


well, unless you want to go to the next level and use a computer controlled leveling system. But still, you won't have as much wheel travle as you would with solid axles.
 
#3 ·
Walker Evans has done this and so has Shannon Campbell but both of them have gone back to solid axle setups. The halfshafts are expensive and must be custom made. I know Jesse at High Angle has made some prototypes but nothing on a regular basis. The "forced" articulation is not there like in a solid axle setup so there are issues there.

To each their own but keep in mind the amount of $$$ Walker Evans has in his R/D dept and he's gone back to solid axles.
 
#5 ·
Rany Ellis ran GM 1 ton front IFS at both ends of his red racer. It did well only cause it was one of the first tiny buggy's. It didn't have any flex to speak of and was constantly blowing cv's. IFS is best left for the high speed guy IMO.
 
#6 ·
I will be building independent suspension on my rig soon. I'm using an Explorer 8.8 rear, GM 9.5 front and hummer portals on both. I am curious as well what happened to Walker's old Dynatrac 60 parts. It won't be long and they will moving them like they do ProRocks now.
 
#7 ·
I really doubt Dynatrac will ever sell IFS center sections on the scale they do ProRock housings. If they ever offer it to market. I mean if a guy like Walker Evans tried it and couldn't get it to work right they might just say screw that only custom orders.
 
#8 ·
sled_dog said:
I really doubt Dynatrac will ever sell IFS center sections on the scale they do ProRock housings. If they ever offer it to market. I mean if a guy like Walker Evans tried it and couldn't get it to work right they might just say screw that only custom orders.
Click to expand...

You doubt they will; I predict they will. :rolleyes:

Walker Evans, in the rockcrawling world, seems to me to be one of those guys that if it doesn't work for him, throw more money at it, then when he still doesn't win, copy someone else. He didn't do to well with independent suspension; he didn't do to well with a moon buggy. He may be a legend in motorsports, but not rockcrawling. :rolleyes:
 
#9 ·
about 6 years ago at top truck challenge a guy named gebby from canada showed up with a custom rig with a white cj body. he designed his own tube chassis and independent suspension. he used gamma goat centers. drove the "jeep" all the way from canada to california, won the challenge, and then drove it home. on $$"s!!! :eek:
my ex-room-mate rodney was his copilot. we worked on the rig a little and i have a bunch of pics somewhere. rodnay is now in the process of fabbing his own IFS rig using 14 bolt centers.
so yes, IFS does work, but maybe in the rocks solid axles are still the way to go.
 
#12 ·
squirriljeep said:
You doubt they will; I predict they will. :rolleyes:

Walker Evans, in the rockcrawling world, seems to me to be one of those guys that if it doesn't work for him, throw more money at it, then when he still doesn't win, copy someone else. He didn't do to well with independent suspension; he didn't do to well with a moon buggy. He may be a legend in motorsports, but not rockcrawling. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I predict that you won't build an IFS rig, or even come close to being able to compete with a guy like Walker Evans. How long did it take before the people at Dynatrac stopped laughing at you, I'm sure you called them wanting to know when they would be out with this wonderful product. :rolleyes:

Randy Ellis's red buggy did do one thing well, kick ass in tough truck. It would literally skid over the rocks.
 
#13 ·
squirriljeep said:
You doubt they will; I predict they will. :rolleyes:

Walker Evans, in the rockcrawling world, seems to me to be one of those guys that if it doesn't work for him, throw more money at it, then when he still doesn't win, copy someone else. He didn't do to well with independent suspension; he didn't do to well with a moon buggy. He may be a legend in motorsports, but not rockcrawling. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Whoa...you obviously don't know SHIT about Walker and his amazing group of skilled builders...truly, you just put your foot in your mouth. What MoonBuggies have been successful but TINY? NONE. Yes, they have had a couple of good finishes but none have been consistant like TINY has been...not Walker's fault.
Walker took a giant leap and designed an amazing Inde suspension using a completely unheard of swingarm design. The only problem is that forced articulation is illegal otherwise he would have been out there with a suspension that would BURY the rest of us on a design that was light years ahead of its time...he did the best he could, wanted to make some more alterations to try to make it work but then decided he didn't need to work so hard at it, he could just do it for fun and buy something that already is proven stable and functional.
SuperCrawl 1 - Last obstacle lost it for him. Otherwise he was KILLING everyone. The car tipped on its side with the pickup tube unfed, the car died, end of story.
RCAA 2003 - In his second time out with Straight Axles in Peanut, he kicked everyones ass.
This year, Walker was ready to win in the Farmington event. Motor smoked, he's out.
You make it like he's competing against pansy's and losing...WTF, he's competing among the best in the world and is out to have a good time without STRUGGLING to win, yet he does pretty damn well. You also say he just throws more money at it...That shows you REALLY don't have a clue. He's got more money than most anyone but has put very little into this whole thing. He doesn't show up in a big rig. He doesn't show up with shit noone else can afford like titanium frames, tungsten in the tires, IRL motors, and an amazing array of shit HE can afford. Shit did you ever think you just might be fawking JEALOUS that Walker's a far better crawler at over 70 years old than you are in your youth???

Walker...smiling, having a good time, seeing his friends, and spending time doing what he loves to do which is WHEEL...fuck, your attitude pisses me off. Someone's out to have fun and you say shit like that!!! FUCK YOU! :mad3: I hope Walker drives by you on the trail as he's wheeling his Scrambler and he see's you broke. He'll stop to lend a helping hand because he does that type of stuff...then you can fucking eat those words you piece of shit.
 
#14 ·
dam, dustin, tell him how you really feel.

i've been fortunate enough to meet both dustin (a few times, favorite was when he was competing in a cast due to a busted ankle) and walker at a couple of comps. both of them looked to be having a great time and that's what it's all about. walker was surrounded by little kids at one point and he the time to talk to and sign autographs for every single one of them. pretty cool dude in my book. and he's not out there showboating.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Sorry but it just slays me to see someone bash like that, especially on someone so well know to this industry and not even here to defend himself. That post was so uncalled for it is deserving of a hell of a lot more grief than I gave.
Also, look at how Walker flat out ATTACKED the backside of the Matterhorn. Also, 100% AWESOME on obstacle 2. Tell me Walker doesn't flat out get it! How many others even tried the backside of the MatterHorn??? 6, out of how many at SuperCrawl???

Want proof? Just right click this link and hit Save Target As...

http://pbb.supergper.com/walker.mov

then thank SuperGPER - Caleb for hosting it for us all.

In short, SquirrilJeep owes Walker an apology and owes us an, "OOPS, I just realised what an ASS I really am!"


.
 
#16 · (Edited)
RedBullJeep said:
Whoa...you obviously don't know SHIT about Walker and his amazing group of skilled builders...truly, you just put your foot in your mouth. What MoonBuggies have been successful but TINY? NONE. Yes, they have had a couple of good finishes but none have been consistant like TINY has been...not Walker's fault.
Walker took a giant leap and designed an amazing Inde suspension using a completely unheard of swingarm design. The only problem is that forced articulation is illegal otherwise he would have been out there with a suspension that would BURY the rest of us on a design that was light years ahead of its time...he did the best he could, wanted to make some more alterations to try to make it work but then decided he didn't need to work so hard at it, he could just do it for fun and buy something that already is proven stable and functional.
SuperCrawl 1 - Last obstacle lost it for him. Otherwise he was KILLING everyone. The car tipped on its side with the pickup tube unfed, the car died, end of story.
RCAA 2003 - In his second time out with Straight Axles in Peanut, he kicked everyones ass.
This year, Walker was ready to win in the Farmington event. Motor smoked, he's out.
You make it like he's competing against pansy's and losing...WTF, he's competing among the best in the world and is out to have a good time without STRUGGLING to win, yet he does pretty damn well. You also say he just throws more money at it...That shows you REALLY don't have a clue. He's got more money than most anyone but has put very little into this whole thing. He doesn't show up in a big rig. He doesn't show up with shit noone else can afford like titanium frames, tungsten in the tires, IRL motors, and an amazing array of shit HE can afford. Shit did you ever think you just might be fawking JEALOUS that Walker's a far better crawler at over 70 years old than you are in your youth???

Walker...smiling, having a good time, seeing his friends, and spending time doing what he loves to do which is WHEEL...fuck, your attitude pisses me off. Someone's out to have fun and you say shit like that!!! FUCK YOU! :mad3: I hope Walker drives by you on the trail as he's wheeling his Scrambler and he see's you broke. He'll stop to lend a helping hand because he does that type of stuff...then you can fucking eat those words you piece of shit.
Click to expand...
Dustin, you can say what you want as you defend your buddy in your always present social-good-guy-for-the-good-of-the-sport kind of way, but look beyond Walker as a person, but rather as a competitor.

Of course Tiny was a successful moon buggy. He was the only moon buggy competing at the time. Since then Shannon Campbell, Mitch Guthrie, Jon Nelson have all had much better success than Walker Evans. I don't buy your- he's not winning, because he doesn't want to try that hard. Once a competitor, always a competitor.

Maybe you hadn't heard of his independent swingarm suspension, but it had been done before him and he could have done it better.

No he doesn't show up with unobtanium shit...maybe he should. Maybe you could talk him into doing it, after all...it'd be good for the sport.




I never said Walker doesn't attack obstacles or get it awn, but it doesn't seem to be working for him...or you for that matter.

Apology? :laughing: You need to drop the emotions.
 
#17 ·
squirriljeep said:
Dustin, you can say what you want as you defend your buddy
Click to expand...
I would defend anyone that was being barked at by an ass.

squirriljeep said:
Of course Tiny was a successful moon buggy. He was the only moon buggy competing at the time.
Click to expand...
And if you haven't noticed, TINY is STILL having a better competition record than all of the others...even with three different drivers...but then you wouldn't blame it on the buggy, you'd blame it on the drivers :rolleyes:

squirriljeep said:
Since then Shannon Campbell, Mitch Guthrie, Jon Nelson have all had much better success than Walker Evans.
Click to expand...
And you also don't take the time to consider the TIRES, cause you really know it all don't you? Also, knowing that Walker basically came into that car LATE in the game, with 15 minutes of seat time before competing. How's he doing compared to the guys with similar seat time in a moon buggy??? BETTER???

squirriljeep said:
Maybe you hadn't heard of his independent swingarm suspension, but it had been done before him and he could have done it better.
Click to expand...
So then if you fawking know it all, show us...

squirriljeep said:
No he doesn't show up with unobtanium shit...maybe he should.
Click to expand...
Now wait...just one posting before, didn't you say, "...if it doesn't work for him, throw more money at it..."??? You must be related to John Kerry...

squirriljeep said:
but it doesn't seem to be working for him...or you for that matter.
Click to expand...
If you actually knew jack shit about marketing in modern sports, you know that it is working just fine...so fine in fact that I TRIPLED the next best marketing results of the sport's National Champion...and he was about 30% higher than the next person. Some people fail to see that winning is not that important in the business of professional sports. Personally, I'd rather win, but my wallet says, "put on a show and have a good time doing it, collect the big marketing impressions, collect the big paycheck, and grow the team and the sport along the way" But you wouldn't know that, or even care.
Now that statement is in defense of my direction and attitude toward performing in this sport...Walker would have a different mentality. He'd say that he's out to have a good time, sure he'd love to win but knows that there are many good rigs and good drivers against him so he'll take it where he can find it...then he'd say something like, "get the fuck out of my face you ass...what have YOU done for this sport?"
For you to come on and bash someone who never claimed to be "the SHIT", just goes to show your true colors...it would be different if he was a braggar, but he's not. Think about what you have done. If you don't think it was wrong, you've got some serious problems.
 
#18 ·
DAMN!!!! Dustin. I believe that would be called LAYING THE SMACK DOWN!!!!This is too funny. I have seen WAlkers rig in person, and even though I do not agree with the idea of an IFS rig, he did a pretty good job at it. Would I drive one? No, but more power to him if he can.

As for squirrel, if you can build it, DO IT. Stop talking the talk, and walkt he walk. Sure it can be done, but there are more parts to break, less flex, and you have CV joints to deal with. I would hjave to pass on it personally. You have obviously done some research on this, but not enough. As for Dynatrac getting into this market... You are smokin some CRACK!!!! Solid axles will be te bread and butter for any axle manufacturer. Sure they MAY sell a few IFS centers, but SA is the only way togo.

Dima
 
#19 ·
Dima, I'm going to take a step back here...

"You know, I've been doing a lot of research into inde suspension and also took a good look at Walker's inde rig. Studying that design, I have seen that with these changes...blah, blah, blah...the design should be more effective...blah, blah, blah..."

If SquirrilJeep had made a statement like that, I'd tend to believe he was worth listening to.

Instead we see this:
Walker Evans, in the rockcrawling world, seems to me to be one of those guys that if it doesn't work for him, throw more money at it, then when he still doesn't win, copy someone else. He didn't do to well with independent suspension; he didn't do to well with a moon buggy. He may be a legend in motorsports, but not rockcrawling. :rolleyes:

What does that have to do with this discussion on independant suspension? Absolutly ZERO and Squirril's disregard for real facts and people's feelings just tells me he is a jealous and/or spiteful person that is NOT worth listening to. That was a personal attack on Walker for trying something that many people said couldn't be done. He gave it a shot, it worked OK, it would have worked better with an ace up his sleeve of forced articulation, but that was deemed illegal. He could have used it in CalROCS before they moved to the UROC rules. Let's face it, timing was wrong and someday if they ever open it back up to forced articulation, his design may prove to work. Were his effort to this point deserving of someone saying he's not a great driver??? No way, SquirrilJeep just wanted to put someone down to try to make himself look big and I called bullshit.
 
#20 ·
RedBullJeep said:
Whoa...you obviously don't know SHIT about Walker and his amazing group of skilled builders...truly, you just put your foot in your mouth. What MoonBuggies have been successful but TINY? NONE. Yes, they have had a couple of good finishes but none have been consistant like TINY has been...not Walker's fault.
Walker took a giant leap and designed an amazing Inde suspension using a completely unheard of swingarm design. The only problem is that forced articulation is illegal otherwise he would have been out there with a suspension that would BURY the rest of us on a design that was light years ahead of its time...he did the best he could, wanted to make some more alterations to try to make it work but then decided he didn't need to work so hard at it, he could just do it for fun and buy something that already is proven stable and functional.
SuperCrawl 1 - Last obstacle lost it for him. Otherwise he was KILLING everyone. The car tipped on its side with the pickup tube unfed, the car died, end of story.
RCAA 2003 - In his second time out with Straight Axles in Peanut, he kicked everyones ass.
This year, Walker was ready to win in the Farmington event. Motor smoked, he's out.
You make it like he's competing against pansy's and losing...WTF, he's competing among the best in the world and is out to have a good time without STRUGGLING to win, yet he does pretty damn well. You also say he just throws more money at it...That shows you REALLY don't have a clue. He's got more money than most anyone but has put very little into this whole thing. He doesn't show up in a big rig. He doesn't show up with shit noone else can afford like titanium frames, tungsten in the tires, IRL motors, and an amazing array of shit HE can afford. Shit did you ever think you just might be fawking JEALOUS that Walker's a far better crawler at over 70 years old than you are in your youth???

Walker...smiling, having a good time, seeing his friends, and spending time doing what he loves to do which is WHEEL...fuck, your attitude pisses me off. Someone's out to have fun and you say shit like that!!! FUCK YOU! :mad3: I hope Walker drives by you on the trail as he's wheeling his Scrambler and he see's you broke. He'll stop to lend a helping hand because he does that type of stuff...then you can fucking eat those words you piece of shit.
Click to expand...



THANK YOU DUSTIN


This post shows just what kind of competitor and man you are. Thank you for standing up for someone who is not on this board to speak for himself. Thank you, you are the man. :beer:

Thanks Ross
 
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