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Joel's multipurpose 40 on 41s

56K views 208 replies 45 participants last post by  frjiolee  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
New project getting started... 1972 FJ40. This is what happens when you ask a five year old to pose by your new rig.

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Backstory first, then on to the build.

Over the last year or so I've been debating putting serious axles and suspension under my current 1999 Jeep Cherokee (which I've loved as a great all around-er kind of vehicle).

The Jeep in question if you're curious.
Joel's multipurpose XJ build (rocks/boulevard) - NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association

I decided to carry over the rocks/boulevard description for this one since that's still pretty much true.

The XJ is simple from the outside but I've had fun building things for it. This is a scratch built tire carrier with two positions for running the spare low or high, all critical welds cleaned up for fatigue resistance.

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I made a variety of aluminum armor for it because I can. The top one is a double deck, ribbed and riveted. The exhaust is mandrel bent stainless so a big mid skid helped me in keeping that happy.

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You know that old joke about sending your girlfriend to buy muffler bearings at the car shop? Yep, I ran one... It's linear bearing for thermal expansion and moves about 3/8" as the car warms up.

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Anyways, Polaris RZRs have been ruining my perception of happy power-to-weight off road. That said, most of the side by sides on the market are really fragile and seem to be constantly breaking drive-line stuff. I was at a ride and drive event where we didn't have enough vehicles and so I jumped in my XJ and started taking folks on hot laps. On the one hand, my rig was pretty capable and will go most places. However, at the end of it I was forced to admit: The I6 4.0L that everyone in the Jeep world seems to love...

...is kinda gutless... :(

So I could add an LS swap to the wheels, tires, axles and lockers I was looking at, but then I'd end up spending a total of $17k on a vehicle that would never be worth more than 11k or so. And I live in CA so I'd have still smog challenges with an engine swap. Time to go shopping. I'd looked casually a few times and never seen much that got me jazzed. However, the very same night I decided the XJ's power train wasn't up to it, I ran into one I was so stoked on I literally walked straight into the kitchen with laptop and told my wife I wanted to buy a vehicle.

A couple weeks and a few crazy logistics later, I have a new project to introduce...
 
#2 · (Edited)
1972 Land Cruiser, though really how much of a Land Cruiser is left is up for debate.

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Clean 1972 title
2000 vette LS
Turbo 400 trans
Atlas 4 speed transfer case
Double triangulated links front and rear
Dana 60 front, 14B rear (both shaved)
ORI struts
and a big stack of spare parts:

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Most of the frame and driveline work is complete, but the other hand, there's no exhaust, no cooling, no electrical, and minimal floorboards. The body has been cut and boat sided by about 5" with 3" of that cut out of the door frames. I have doors but they need to be shortened.

Oh, and because I'm an idiot I can never buy interesting vehicles locally I picked this up in Kennewick WA and I live near Disneyland. I maybe should have had it shipped but I really wanted to see it in person and a road trip sounds rad.

There's a heck of a lot of country on the west coast between it's northern and southern ends:

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Even saw some rain (this was sunrise front of my in-laws place in Clarkston on the Idaho border)

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Good news was that I picked on my of oldest buddies halfway up CA and so it was bro time for ~32 of the 46 hours in the car.

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Tow vehicle gives a better idea of scale.

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And now it's home... My kids dig the "new Jeep" and I might let the name stick since it amuses me greatly (sacrilege I know).

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#3 · (Edited)
There's a steering ram up front but no dash, no instruments and no steering wheel (have the OEM in a box but unlikely to run it). Former owner could certainly weld though.

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Back is pretty small considering I'm coming from an XJ. Going to need some careful packaging for sure.

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Nice looking node up in the roof.

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Shock towers are in and the geometry looks good, but some additional welding needed. Last guy was pretty clever with use of removable cross members which will help serviceability.

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Not only is the rear 14 bolt trussed, he actually sleeved each of the dimple die locations to keep it from packing with mud. There's a bunch of spots where this kind of attention to detail shows. My kinda builder for sure.

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#4 · (Edited)
Only about 1/3 of the floorboards exist so I have a ton of fab work ahead of me. Somehow I need to snake headers and exhaust through the boat sides and custom headers took me stupid amounts of time last time (I also have a 429 ci LS2 RX7).

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There's also a good bit of rust I'll need to deal with. It's doesn't need to be perfect but once I get into it, the temptation of pushing it that extra little bit is going to be high... :halo:

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The goal is really just to be a faster, more fun, more hardcore version of the XJ I'm replacing (which I loved for being an all around performer). I want it to be capable offroad in the rocks and desert whoop-de-woos. Running fast in dirt is a ton of fun so the extra power should help. The heavy axles won't help going fast but that comes with not wanting to have to baby throttle in the rocks.

I want to be able to take the family camping and haul stuff at Home Depot. Frankly just the thought of loading up the roof of this with plywood makes me smile. Do I have and idea what it'll take to make a load path to do that? Nope, but I can figure it out.

It also needs to be able to tow. I want to be able to haul cars in a pinch and I'll likely need a smaller trailer for camping. That's one of the things that has me stoked about the strut setup. From what I've read on the ORI's, it sounds like changing pressure on both sides sounds of the piston will let me change the effective spring rate.

Last but not least, it'll serve as a fall back to the RX7 when that's getting work done. In the meantime I need to get the RX7 back on the road with a quickness so I still can't really get into this for some time yet. I'd really like to have it stashed in the garage and that can't happen until the garage is functional and given we bought our first home about a year ago, there's been a ton of work on attics, lights, electrical etc, going on.

Hope y'all like it.
-Joel
 
#5 ·
Thanks for posting! I like it. We have all have dreams of the ultimate rig that can Run a Ultra4 race on Friday and pickup plywood at Home Depot on Saturday.
I am excited to see what you can pull off. It looks like a really good starting point.
 
#8 ·
Awesome project for sure. What's the wheelbase on this thing. With full hydro, I dont know if I would want to tow vehicles with it, but everything else on your list seems very doable.

Im looking forward to this build for sure.
 
#9 · (Edited)
110" wb, 82" to outside of tires. Fits on a standard 7' wide car trailer but barely.

Billavista's tech articles on full hydro steering were really what gives me hope of running full hydro reliably. It sounds like some of the issues with centering and feel can be addressed with careful design. Getting a value with "manual mode" built in also dang important to me since I will haul my family in this and having no steering on loss of power isn't acceptable.

BillaVista.com-Performance Off-Road Systems Hydraulic Steering Tech Article by BillaVista

As to towing... I'm not saying it has to tow well as I don't think I'd try anything too crazy, but hauling cars on flat roads at 55 mph is hopefully doable. I'll start with a little utility trailer and work my way up.
 
#10 ·
Glad to see this build being finished here. I'm now planning on how I can get rid of my 4runner, keep some kind of POS wheeler, and start building a 40 similar to yours.
 
#11 ·
Ok, just so I can say I've been doing something on the FJ.

I did make a quick car cover. This won't make it into the garage until the RX7 vacates space and I a) didn't want to admit to my HOA how rough this is and b) wanted to keep it out of the elements and try to keep all that bare steel from rusting immediately.

Took some misc car cover I had and tried it. It fit over but wasn't close to covering tires so I cut up and sewed in a tarp. Random frijolee fact: I know how to sew, iron, cut hair, and cook. My mother is so proud... :rolleyes:

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Discovered Harbor Freight sells a DIY tarp grommet kit. Sweet. That'll help keep things in place...

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I was out of town on a week when we had rain on the horizon. No time to get a proper cover made (California Car Cover can do so, but it'd be better if I had the fenders done and sitting at ride height). I checked whether the cover I had was water proof and was meet with a resounding no. I at least opened it all up to see if I could get some plastic under it.

FYI, I kinda get the impression there will be a lot of pictures taken in the dark on this project.

Good news is that I jacked it up to check out what ride height might be. Looks wicked, but this sucker is going to be big!

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And I did have enough drop cloth lying around to get it protected as best I could on short notice.

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I really need to paint the raw steel with something, but I can't easily do that until I get this on a slab in my backyard (which still needs to be poured).

-Joel
 
#17 ·
To keep that bare steel fresh without painting, try mavcoat. My stock class race truck has no paint on anything but body panels. You can weld over it, it lasts for a long time.
 

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#19 · (Edited)
Slab work is starting today so I'm getting excited and starting the planning stages. Since this rig has a long way to go I'm working my way through parts and priorities.

In back, rear seats have priority so I ordered a Bestop TrailMax II from a Jeep CJ application. Once I have that mocked in I can finalize fuel tank plans and verify how much storage I may or may not have left in back.

I'm thinking that pedals and steering mounting come next. Snaking headers won't be easy but since I'm planning custom headers I'd rather force those to compensate. I'll likely need to push the firewall forward somewhat.

Radiator I can move on pretty quickly as I don't think anything besides the winch controller is competing for space up front.

Does anyone have recommendations on a high (higher) mount alternator for the vette LS1? I have a conflict to resolve as some part prioritization has already occurred.

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Recommendations on remote mount air conditioning units would be helpful as well. Not sure if vintage air has anything like that, but there's no way it's fitting down in the stock location.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Thanks for the offer... I think I may have seen that earlier and was tempted. My front buckets are Corbeau already. The downside was that narrowest Corbeau bench seats were 36" wide and I'm sitting right at 34" at a few frame notches for the rear suspension travel. I might have been able to cut or modify it, but the added effort was high for a small savings.

If the Bestop matches poorly, I'll let you know. Supposedly they are 34" so I've got a shot. Summit had a black friday deal going so I'm only into this $230. You did have the 36" wide one right?
 
#24 ·
That's a really trick setup. Thanks for the tip. It would mean switching over to F-body stuff, but that's not too big a deal.

Direct link if anyone else is curious:
Bomber Fab LS Motor Billet Alternator Brackets – Bomber Fabrication

Anyone have thoughts on an appropriate power capacity? It's an extra $165 to jump from their standard 105 amp to 140 amp capacity. Winch and maybe some extra lights are the only non standard power draws I'd be planning.

I have extremely limited space to put a muffler so this sucker will likely be kinda loud. I may or may not put a radio in it at all.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Back seat came in and kids seem to like it.

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This is a Bestop Trailmax II Fold and Tumble, picked up from Summit on Black Friday. Bestop TrailMax II Fold and Tumble Seats 39440-01 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

Not quite as hardcore as a suspension seat but the lost space with big bolsters on each side was going to hurt me. This actually measures right around 33.5" wide (a touch under the published 34" spec so it should be perfect for me. I ordered not knowing for sure whether car seats would fit but that looks like it'll be fine.

It is short though.

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Even with the headrest all the way up it lands just below centerline on my noggin (your average 6' white dude).
 
#32 ·
Sorry for the hiatus gents...

I got shipped abroad on short notice (longish term international assignment for work had me slaving off in a Chinese factory from Feb through June so I'm just getting back into this). Figured I'd make up for it by post a bit of progress as well as few of my conundrums and research done while on the road.

Good news is that real work is starting...

Anyways here goes, I'm starting with the biggest pieces that need to package well.

The fuel tank is kind of a bugger. The two obvious places this could go are either under the rear seats or else along the passenger side of the transmission/transfer case. I like the mid mount slot next to the trans because it's well protected and down low. Exhaust will live outboard of the frame rails on either side (each bank will running down the tunnel formed by boat sides) so that's not a problem like it would be in an RX7.

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However the trans and transfer case may still put out a decent amount of heat. Downside is that I'm still probably only getting 8 gallons or so in that space.

I almost wonder if there's a good way to daisy chain two tanks together. I see three possible ways to do this:
1) Just plumb them together. Likely means I need a check valve from the upper (rear seat area) to lower (trans area) so it can't run away from the pickup when facing uphill. Not sure if check valves in the fuel system are a massive no no from a reliability perspective.
2) Two separate tanks with a switch (main/reserve). This is proven and I could steal some tech from the boat guys. However, it becomes a bit of a pain filling up, although maybe I could put a "Y" in a TBD fill neck or something.
3) Treat one as a "lift tank" of sorts? Still means extra pumps and wiring but not the end of the world.

The other approach is to get crazy under the rear seats by carving deep into the floorboards. The biggest conflict on space claim here is that I still have to dodge around my suspension links under full compression. You can see the power bulges that were already started to make space:

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And here it was during the build before it had floorboards at all.

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This ends up as a welding project to make a seriously crazy tank. It would basically have to have three low areas around where the two upper links can swing. How do OEM's do a tank with multiple low spots? I seem to recall modern Camaros do something like this, heck now that I think about it, I think the RX8 does too. Is it multiple pickups to a single pump? Bite the bullet and get a hydro mat that spans all three deep areas? I swear I'm reinventing the wheel here I just don't know what they're doing.

-Joel

PS Sooooooo good to be home.