There are like 6 guys I wheel with all the time.They all are 60-60's. I think they all have 4340 shafts and longfield joints. 3 of the guys are on 39.5s the others on 42 TSL's like me. I'd say our trucks are all pretty much the same (v-8's)
I have only broken a portal box once, probably 4 years ago, so I am going to say they are at least equal in strength to a modded 60. My rig is about 4300#

 

I think the real question is how do you wheel? If your always on the gas in tight spots and you like to use that V8 when your rock crawling your going to break 404 axles and 60's. The 404 axles will give you a lot more clearance which is half the reason you might need to use that throttle to get over obstacles. So in that case the 404 would be a better choice. I've heard pretty unanimously that the 404 axles and the 60's are the same strength. Maybe a little different strengths in certain spots but overall the whole package is even in strength.

The one option you haven't mentioned is 406 or 416 axles. These are the best of both worlds, you have your portal clearance and 2 1/2 ton strength! If you want endless piece of mind go with these axles!

 

The one option you haven't mentioned is 406 or 416 axles. These are the best of both worlds, you have your portal clearance and 2 1/2 ton strength! If you want endless piece of mind go with these axles!

There are enough 406/416 axles out there now that I don't see why people even bother with 404's. There are even newer MBU/SBU axles coming available as the public works trucks of the 1980's (U1000's, U1200's, ect) rust out from over them...

 

I may upgrade to the 406 or 416 if I end up with dificulties with the 404s, as I already have the 404s. And for driving style, I curently have 38 swampers on a 44 with stock axles, I brake shafts every now and then, but I have learned how to drive it. Does it seem to be the portal box that breaks first, and under what conditions? Do the gears break or dose the housing go?

 

404

The portal boxes only break because people just slap em in and then they never check or tighten the bolts on the portle. I have been bound up gettin it and never broke, and my t-cases are not going to stop at 518 to1 crawl ratio. Here is How I made my decision. Mogs, locked up with 7.56 $2,500. 60's built front and rear $8,000 to $2000000?????? Dont forget that the ring and pinion breaks on a 60 as well as the lockers. That shit will never break on some 404's.

 

of course you could put 20 ton all terrain fork lift hubs on a 5 ton if you never want to break anything and you get like a 19 to 1:laughing:.... of course :idea: there may be a weight issue.

 

Money. last I knew 406's were about 2K ea when I could get a PAIR of 404's (1 steer, 1 straight) for 2K.
That was before 4$ gasoline too......

 

I have been competeing all this season and end of last season on 404's (9 comps total). My buggy weighs 3400 lbs. I have beat the heck out of the axles with doing front digs and dropping off of 3-5 foot ledges just to avoid the reverse. I only blew up one CV joint and one portal and it was becasue of lack of maint (no oil, bone dry). My trips out to JV are bad because of the high speeds that we go from trail to trail - no oil will burn the boxes fast. Going fast and Competeing will be as hard on these axles as you could possibly be. I tell you with confidence that they are strong as long as you maintain them.

My last comp, I came down hard on my driver front wheel and bent my front axle housing (mog9), cracked the weld of the flange on that side and completely tore out my link mount from the passenger side frame. My portal box made it through the whole next day of competition and is still going strong. How's that for strength?

My recommendations... maintain and inspect you CV's and keep the oil in your portal boxes. Keep all bolts tightened regularly and have fun. Becasue of the reduction boxes, you will see half the stress on drive train (i doubt you'll ever break an axle or drive line). Becasue of this, you are more likely to break the portal boxes. Keep a spare box and 2 spare sets of gears (1 left and 1 right) and you'll be set for any trip.

 

I was originaly planning on using the 404 tie rod ends with a new tie rod, and running hydro steering to the tie rod, then welding a plate along the bottom of the arm to make it more rigid something like the crude cave art below. But then I saw this shot (Below the crude cave art) of a mog axled buggy in Petersen's, it looks like the whole arm ripped out the two bolts and seperated from the knuckle.

Is this a comon problem? Or will the reinforced steering arm work.

 

Weps sells steering arms for a fair price.

 

I have a buddy here in the uk that does winch comps and he beats on them hard, and doesn't maintain them very well. They have held up great!
As for the steering arm, there is two different versions. One is beefier than the other by some bit. We have bent a weaker one slightly, but heated, straightened, and reinforced them with round bar the length and around the end.
I can get photos if anyone wants.

 

unimog


Can you post a photo

 

i have ripped bolt from the knuckel 3 time then i welded them (arm to knuckel) and never had any problem

 

I looked at Weps Arms, and at several others, then whent home last night and stared at my portals for a few while fabing the top "A" link for the suspension. Here is my problem....I wanted to run the drum brakes, and 20" Mog wheels and all of the high steer arms that I saw come in from the outboard side of the portal, and if you fab one from the inboard side it would be realy thin where it picks up the bolts around the portal....maybe I will weld the arm to the knuckle as mentioned by Ubermog, then run the reinforcement all the way to the knuckle.

 

I made these arms pretty much for all the reasons you have stated, plus one of my friends who has the arms bolted to the box constantly strips the bolts out of the box.
At the moment my box can come off, but the bolts are captive. When the day comes that I have to remove one or both boxes I'll replace the bolts with studs and nuts to make it more serviceable.

 

maybee im not understanding because i'mnot that familiar with the 404's

but if i welded my 416 steering arm on, i;d never be able to remove the box because the arm bolts sandwich the kingpin....

 

Here is how I did them on my old truck.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222539&highlight=steering+arm

 

I think the weight of a vehicle has everything to do with axle size. I ran 404's F&R steer on my scrambler and liked them a lot. But I am pushing close to 6000 lbs with my ext cage and reinforcements. In my 3 years of mogs I broke 2 portals and 1 top kingpin...all on the rear...and all when I had the majority of weight on the rear. I feel reasonably sure the steer in the rear makes it weaker on the portals. I reinforced the portals and kingpin housings and built bigger kingpins approx 6 months before I pulled them out. During that 6 month period I didn't break anything but still felt I was pushing it with a 6000 lb vehicle so I went to Rockwell's. If I was building a lighter vehicle, especially like a buggy, I wouldn't hesitate one second to put the mogs under it!

 

how light are we talkin here? 3600 pounds?

QUOTE=mopetal;8516066]I think the weight of a vehicle has everything to do with axle size. I ran 404's F&R steer on my scrambler and liked them a lot. But I am pushing close to 6000 lbs with my ext cage and reinforcements. In my 3 years of mogs I broke 2 portals and 1 top kingpin...all on the rear...and all when I had the majority of weight on the rear. I feel reasonably sure the steer in the rear makes it weaker on the portals. I reinforced the portals and kingpin housings and built bigger kingpins approx 6 months before I pulled them out. During that 6 month period I didn't break anything but still felt I was pushing it with a 6000 lb vehicle so I went to Rockwell's. If I was building a lighter vehicle, especially like a buggy, I wouldn't hesitate one second to put the mogs under it![/QUOTE]

 

how light are we talking here? 3600 pounds?
With any axle the-lighter-the-better! I'd think 3600 would be a excellent weight for 404's.

 

Originaly I was targeting 4200lbs, next month I may have it rolling and I can put it on some scales and weigh it.

 

from my build thread here is the one i mocked up this weekend. It will be boxed more and eliminates the bolts stripping out in the box. Not sure if this will work with drum brakes.

Its 3/8" plate and totals 13lbs.

They did work well the only problem is somehow my two lower bolt holes got moved on me when modeling it thus the cuts so i could mock up the prototype. Basically it sandwiches both the steering knuckle and backing plate then angles over away from the tire and to achieve the desired ackerman.

The back plate is drilled and tapped due to space constraints and not being able to fit a nut on.

Here are the BTF arms for some more ideas. these mount just on in th inside face so i'm sure they would work with drum brakes.

 

from my build thread here is the one i mocked up this weekend. It will be boxed more and eliminates the bolts stripping out in the box. Not sure if this will work with drum brakes.




Here are the BTF arms for some more ideas. these mount just on in th inside face so i'm sure they would work with drum brakes.

I think I've seen this picture before maybe at http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=700650