[backyard wrenchers]

Bruce,

One other quick thing I noticed. I know there is a $10 entrance fee for spectators. It seemed like 90% of the people there didn't even know they had to pay and didn't pay.

This might be something to look into.

I am glad to pay $10 to watch the event. I just think there needs to be a better system for spectators.

I thought it was 5 for spectators, i could be wrong. either way it wasnt like the comps where there was a front gate type set up with people to give you wrist bands and such.



Grason

 

[LazyDog]

we as racers need to take control of the situation and ensure our safety.

Agreed.

Ultimately, the driver is responsible their own safety, the co-driver's safety and the other competitor's safety.

In the spring LM race, we came around a blind corner really hot to find two rigs broken down and completely blocking the race course. It was my responsibility as the driver to not plow into them and kill someone.

I can't imagine how hard it would be to avoid another rig head on when we're both hauling ass over 60 MPH.

The faster you go, the more responsibility you take on as a driver.

(where did I put my flame suit? I'm going to need it after this post)

 

[vetteboy79]

I can't imagine how hard it would be to avoid another rig head on when we're both hauling ass over 60 MPH.

The faster you go, the more responsibility you take on as a driver.

(where did I put my flame suit? I'm going to need it after this post)

I was lucky enough that when Doug and I came head-to-head, it was in a spot that was wide enough (and smooth enough) that we had room to get by. Dan and I had about 3 seconds to shit ourselves and get out of the way. It then took another 10 seconds before we realized WTF happened.

I see no problem with your statements. This stuff is no joke.

I think it's been stated already, but (@Bruce and staff) please don't take any negativity the wrong way - it was an awesome event, the course was fantastic, and I can't wait til next year. As a racer I'm just offering suggestions for things that would have helped from my point of view, as I went past several spots where I would have stopped much sooner had somebody held out a sign or a flag.

Trust me, I had a lot of fun on the 'practice' lap, but I started that day knowing my truck had a finite amount of laps in 'er. :laughing:

Thanks again for the great experience.

 

[balduccibrosracing]

Agreed.

Ultimately, the driver is responsible their own safety, the co-driver's safety and the other competitor's safety.

In the spring LM race, we came around a blind corner really hot to find two rigs broken down and completely blocking the race course. It was my responsibility as the driver to not plow into them and kill someone.

I can't imagine how hard it would be to avoid another rig head on when we're both hauling ass over 60 MPH.

The faster you go, the more responsibility you take on as a driver.

(where did I put my flame suit? I'm going to need it after this post)

i completely understand the responsibility of the driver in these races...i came around a corner in one of the semi-tight sections to find doug's rig stopped head-on in front of me, luckily the trail was wide enough for me to get by, and i was going slow enough to keep control as i stopped to ask him if he was ok, it was the first i knew anything wrong had happened...at first sight i thought he had rolled/got spun around

i've thought quite a bit before, during, and after the race about how quickly things can happen, how fast reaction times need to be, whether your all alone in a straightaway or chasing another racer...its a completely different world then trail-riding or crawling comps

 

[zachv]

well not to pile on to the problem but my understanding was that pre-running was only allowed from 3-5pm so this late in the year with it getting dark so early it might be hard to take everyone around.

What I meant was the day of the race, everyone line up in their starting spots, and then everyone take a practice lap at a slower speed. Maybe not the tough rock sections, but the fast, dangerous spots. When they get back they line up again and begin the race. Maybe it is remedial, but everyone would know the course.

 

[LazyDog]

This incident makes me think about liability issues for me as a driver and car owner.

Will my umbrella policy cover me if I'm involved in an accident where someone else is hurt? Would forming an LLC for my racing team help offset some of the liability issues?

I love racing, but I don't want to lose my house and all my future pay.

 

[cmk]

This kind of stuff makes me think that the promotors of all these "high speed, long distance" races need to have their own roundtable so they can share thoughts, experiences, lessons learned, etc. I think a little collaboration would go a long ways towards making the racing safer, more competitive, fairer, more organized, fan friendly, etc.

I admit that I don't know snot about RCrocs ... never been there. I do however know a bit about our local long distance series, TREC.

TREC has its own shortcomings and challenges, but they also do some things extremely well. For instance, their course (that ranges between 6 and 8 miles in length) is so well marked that it would take an absolutely mindless action on behalf of a driver to go the wrong direction.

They also have a check point system that gets competitors slowed down and stopped every couple of miles. That gives everyone a chance to catch their breath and check themselves. It also affords an opportunity to shut down the track at incremental stages, if need be.

Again, I don't know snot about RCrocs, so I'll stop throwing ideas out there as if I know all.

It would be nice to know that promoters are working together, the same way us competitors work together.

cm "the fastest Grand Cherokee this side of the Mississippi" k

 

[DozerDan]

I knowingly drove the wrong way on the course. Obviously a lot of other people did too. We as drivers could have stopped an said WTF?

Very true. The course was well marked and ALOT of people pre ran. Plenty of people knew to go the right way. Not pointing fingers, but when it comes down to it, you are the driver, if something is not right to you, then it is up to you to stop.


The same conversation went through with the bonus lines in crawling being called unsafe. General consensious was that if you dont feel safe, dont do it.

shit happens, luckly no one was hurt, and it can be considered a learning experiance.

 

[EasyXJ]

We were 1 of the teams that got sent the wrong direction. We were completely oblivious to it though as we didn't get in until midnight on Fri. Fortunately nothing bad happened to us, sucks that bigelow got knocked out though. That course was extremely well marked. I don't think a "pace" lap is a good idea.

I've got 2 concerns:

1- A bannered off lane in and out of the pits. When we came out of the pits, we had to wait for people to get out of the way. Plenty of them looked at us, but it was with a complete "deer in the headlights" stare.

2- I know we all want to go down and help someone flip their rig back over, but there were 30 people heading down the middle of the race course to get lou back over. We were racing down that course at the same time those people were walking on it. This could have easily turned into a tragic event as a good portion of those people had the same "deer in headlights" syndrome when we were coming up on them.

Please take these as concerns and not bitching. I had a freaking blast and the sore muscles to prove that team 419 can go the distance. I can't wait to come back and race there. It's all about endurance racing to me.

 

[BillaVista]

Very true. The course was well marked and ALOT of people pre ran. Plenty of people knew to go the right way. Not pointing fingers, but when it comes down to it, you are the driver, if something is not right to you, then it is up to you to stop.

I'm sorry, but I COMPLETELY disagree with this and some of the other opinions being posted. We were right behind Doug the whole time. Yes, we pre-ran, I knew the course well, and I had my GPS plotted. So yes, as soon as the flag-man waved us the other way, I knew we were going the opposite direction to the way we had pre-run. I DID NOT know we were going the WRONG way...you HAVE to trust the course marshals. I figured they had changed the direction for some reason. You have to assume they know what they are doing, you can't stop and have a polite conversation ..."I say, old chap, but are you sure you are flagging us in the right direction?" It's a race! You CANNOT have an environment where you have people second guessing the course marshals or, god forbid, choosing to ignore them...that is the most stupidly dangerous thing that could come out of this.

Put another way...the terrible error - and yes it was a terrible error, not some small mistake, wasn't that the person flagged Doug and us (the 1st two cars) the wrong way...but that they somehow decided to flag other people the OTHER way. That was catastrophically stupid and dangerous. That person has NO business anywhere near a race course ever again - that kind of mistake is just completely intolerable. Volunteering is one thing - but course marshalling is SERIOUS business - this isn't crawling! Maybe volunteers aren't the right people in whose hands to put the lives of 60+ people?

I don't know how many were flagged the wrong way behind Doug and us, but they're about the only people who can attest to what it felt like to come round that corner at better than 60mph to find themselves head-on on a narrow track with a bunch of other cars...it was not a pleasant feeling. I am DAMN lucky that Charlie pulled off one of the greatest, most incredible, quickest thinking awesome pieces of driving ever when he instantly pitched the car up on the left bank and carved it around steering all 4 wheels at 50mph to drop us back on the course going the right way. A bunch of people could easily have been killed. I wish no damage to Bruce or RC or anyone else with my comments - but I think it's very important to not gloss over this and put it down as a simple mistake - it was not. This whole "go fast" revolution is sure fun and popular - but we're not playing anymore - this is deadly serious business and must be approached as such. If you think I'm being a little harsh - ask yourself where the sport would be if two or more people had been killed in a head-on collision?

 

[heavychevyII]

I spoke to some other racers today and they were sent the wrong way and took it upon themselves to turn off reverse course and go the right direction. Meaning that the volunteer may have tried to send everyone backwards but, the drivers fixed it after Big and Charlie were gone. Then the volunteer directed me and a bunch of others the right direction after a short off course.

All and all it was worst case scenario and we were very lucky. I trust whole heartedly that Bruce will correct this. I know that he recognizes the gravity of the situation.

I don't think anyone is shrugging it off and at this point we're beating a dead horse.

Make the course clear to drivers and volunteers PERIOD.

And I don't drive a car.:flipoff2:

See you all next race.

 

[PAToyota]

Put another way...the terrible error - and yes it was a terrible error, not some small mistake, wasn't that the person flagged Doug and us (the 1st two cars) the wrong way...but that they somehow decided to flag other people the OTHER way.

Reading through this, I agree wholeheartedly with Bill. As soon as it was realized that people were sent down the course the wrong way the race should have been stopped until everyone was accounted for.

There is absolutely no way that you can justify the idea that the mistake was caught and that it would somehow work itself out while knowing that there were people traveling in two different directions around the course.

I also agree with Bill over HCII that you can't have people second guessing the officials and deciding on their own that they should be going a different way. That scares me more than the idea of an official sending people the wrong way because again it adds variability to the mix. Some decided to change direction. Others decided not to...

When a mistake of that magnitude was identified, everything should have been brought to a complete stop until everyone was accounted for.

 

[Shady TJ]

Everyone can post how this was a fuck up all day long BELIEVE ME I GET IT!!!! I got it SECOND one with the call over the radio and the phone ringing. My heart sunk to me feet and acted as quick as I could.


I can’t say it again things will be fixed and that is the last time I will say it.

 

[JeepRecoveryTeam]

I can’t say it again things will be fixed and that is the last time I will say it.

We can't wait to come back out there Bruce.

This was a very fortunate unfortunate incident. We got to learn lessons without someone getting hurt.

Thank you to all the volunteers as well as the staff at RC for giving us a place to recreate and race.

See you in May.

Dave

 

[BETSY28]

A couple of us came down from Ontario Canada to run this race an I can say it was the most fun we have ever had in a comp. Taking 3rd place was nice too. We will be back next year with more rigs. looking foreward to it.

Thanks To All Involved.

 

[rj91jeep]

i would like to thank Bruce and everybody at RC that helped with the event. my buddy and i had a great time and got ALOT of great pics. we walked around close to 3/4 of the track and had a blast watching the rigs fly by.

we helped doug try to get his buggy able to steer again for a few hours just so he could drive it out of there but couldnt get it fixed.

hopefully my jeep will be ready to race next year. i cant wait!

 

[DocRocks]

Glad to hear you are ok Doug and that nobody was seriously injured.

Perhaps a topic could be started in the competitor/promoter roundtable forum if further constructive conversations are in order. Just a thought.

 

[BillaVista]

Only have a second between meetings at work.

Just wanted to make it clear - I'n not making a beef with Bruce and RC - I KNOW how much it shook him and how hard they will try to fix it - I saw it in his face!

Great race Bruce and RC crew - awesome course - JFR will be back!!

My issue is two-fold:

1) Let's not (all of us, as a community) underestimate what this gofast stuff is all about and what the risks and consequences are, and most importantly

I spoke to some other racers today and they were sent the wrong way and took it upon themselves to turn off reverse course and go the right direction. Meaning that the volunteer may have tried to send everyone backwards but, the drivers fixed it after Big and Charlie were gone.

Let's put an IMMEDIATE stop to this attitude - it is incredibly dangerous. It's like air traffic control - you cannot "take it upon yourself" to disobey their directions. Think about it for a second.

That's all.


Once again - Thanks Bruce and the whole RC Crew - awesome course - great day of racing!!

 

[DocRocks]

...My issue is two-fold:

1) Let's not (all of us, as a community) underestimate what this gofast stuff is all about and what the risks and consequences are, and most importantly



Let's put an IMMEDIATE stop to this attitude - it is incredibly dangerous. It's like air traffic control - you cannot "take it upon yourself" to disobey their directions. Think about it for a second.

I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, we as a community have a poor track record here.

The stakes change significantly when you go fast. We're talking about full on racing and that is nothing to play around with. With this brings increased responsibilities for us all. Promoter, Driver, Course worker, and spectator as well.

Whether or not someone is paid or is volunteering, has nothing to do with the level of responsibility and professionalism required.

We have an opportunity to learn from this and are very fortunate that lesson didn't come at cost of someone getting seriously injured, or worse.

We all need to wake up. I remember not too long ago folks joking around about punting other drivers into the trees. Joke or not, that kind of attitude is unacceptable.

It only took one life flight ride to the trauma center to wake me up.

 

[ipkyss]

Just a question for the guys racing. How big of a fuel cell are you running, and do you have any idea how much fuel you are using per race? With what motor. Trying to decide on a cell for next year with limited space. It didnt seem like a pit stop for fuel really hurt anyone too bad at the last race. I would like to run a small cell (8-10 gallon) down low, but if not I can run a larger one up higher