Any info?

 

Ever thought of using wood for axles? That would be easy to make...

I'm going to be rich!

 

300M

 

i don't mean to sound like a dick but there is alot more to building axles than what metal to use. if you have not even done the research to understand the sciennce behind the proper metals to use for your application then i can only question that you do not have enuff understandig to properly machine an axle. their is alot more to the design of a proper axle than sticking some splines on it.

start reading and learning.

 

i don't mean to sound like a dick but there is alot more to building axles than what metal to use. if you have not even done the research to understand the sciennce behind the proper metals to use for your application then i can only question that you do not have enuff understandig to properly machine an axle. their is alot more to the design of a proper axle than sticking some splines on it.

start reading and learning.

Thanks for your assistance!

 

Ever thought of using wood for axles? That would be easy to make...

I'm going to be rich!

Long fiber or short fiber?

 

the long fiber works the best:flipoff2:

 

i don't mean to sound like a dick but there is alot more to building axles than what metal to use. if you have not even done the research to understand the sciennce behind the proper metals to use for your application then i can only question that you do not have enuff understandig to properly machine an axle. their is alot more to the design of a proper axle than sticking some splines on it.

start reading and learning.

Yep, I was trying to start learning.

I know about heat treatment and shape, but not sure about materials, is that so bad?

 

i don't mean to sound like a dick but there is alot more to building axles than what metal to use. if you have not even done the research to understand the sciennce behind the proper metals to use for your application then i can only question that you do not have enuff understandig to properly machine an axle. their is alot more to the design of a proper axle than sticking some splines on it.

start reading and learning.

I thought your axel :nuke:

 

I am fairly certain that if you dont know what steel to use, then you certainly know jack shit about heat treatment.

 

i don't mean to sound like a dick but there is alot more to building axles than what metal to use. if you have not even done the research to understand the sciennce behind the proper metals to use for your application then i can only question that you do not have enuff understandig to properly machine an axle. their is alot more to the design of a proper axle than sticking some splines on it.

start reading and learning.

I'd have to agree with you 100% but I have seen very few properly designed axles here, about the only ones made right are your's that Sandy made, even Jack's shafts leave much to be desired.

If you are going to make a set of custom axle, 4340, heat treated to RC 46-50 generally works well, you can also use 300M, but most of the time it is unneccessary.

 

I'd have to agree with you 100% but I have seen very few properly designed axles here, about the only ones made right are your's that Sandy made, even Jack's shafts leave much to be desired.

If you are going to make a set of custom axle, 4340, heat treated to RC 46-50 generally works well, you can also use 300M, but most of the time it is unneccessary.

Very good, thanks to you.

 

Isn't 4140 pretty decent axle material as well? What are the difs between 4140 and 4340?



Scott

 

Isn't 4140 pretty decent axle material as well? What are the difs between 4140 and 4340?



Scott

Yes, 4140 is also a good material and many axles are made of it, the main difference is that 4340 thru hardens better and you can take it to a higher hardness and therefore higher stress levels, when you are mass producing axles, you can save some money by using 4140 as long as you have designed for it, but if you are just making one set, the material costs are only a small factor in the cost, so you may as well the better material.

 

If you are going to make a set of custom axle, 4340, heat treated to RC 46-50 generally works well, you can also use 300M, but most of the time it is unneccessary.

I use 4340 all the time but 42 to 44 max., 46 to 50 is to high for me . steve differential eng. inc.

 

Axles are also case-hardened, not thru hardened. This allows the axle shaft to have strength, but also have some twist under severe load. A thru hardened axle would shatter under heavy load. The case depth is also dependant on the overall axle diameter. The splines are also forged into the axle for greater strength than cut splines. Check out where I used to work, www.aam.com.

 

The splines are also forged into the axle for greater strength than cut splines. Check out where I used to work, www.aam.com.

And what aftermarket manufacturer rolls splines?

How much stronger, percentage wise, are rolled vs cut splines? All things equal, how much stronger is a FF axle vs a SF?

 

How much stronger, percentage wise, are rolled vs cut splines?

Realistically I don't see how it would significantly matter between rolling or cutting as long as time and care is taken to improve the machined surfaces. Yes, I am highly aware of the differences and the cold working of the metal, stress risers and all that other good stuff.

I would say the most important decision for axle shafts is proper design and material selection. After all, don't screw yourself from the start.

I'm sure everyone will have their differences when it comes to heat treating, but all are very similar. A consistant heat treat is most important. For those that aren't familiar with the Rockwell scale --- Rc 55 is about the hardness of a knife blade.

 

Axles are also case-hardened, not thru hardened. This allows the axle shaft to have strength, but also have some twist under severe load. A thru hardened axle would shatter under heavy load. The case depth is also dependant on the overall axle diameter. The splines are also forged into the axle for greater strength than cut splines. Check out where I used to work, www.aam.com.

Production axles are case-hardened by induction hardening, it can have advantages, but the main reason manufacturers do it is cost, it is fast and cheap and allows them to use medium carbon mild steel which is very cheap. Just about every alloy race axle is thru hardened, a case-hardened carbon steel axle doesnt even compare in strength, they don't shatter either.

As far as rolled vs. cut splines go, rolled is better, by how much?, I don't have any emperical data, but it is not very significant for our uses, it mainly helps the fatigue life of the axle, for most of us, our axles don't see enough high cycle fatigue to neccessitate the use of rolled splines, our axle failures are generally one-time overloads. Again, axle manufacturers roll splines because it is fast and cheap, it takes about 20 seconds to roll a spline vs, about 8 minutes to cut a spline.

 

Axles are also case-hardened, not thru hardened. This allows the axle shaft to have strength, but also have some twist under severe load. A thru hardened axle would shatter under heavy load. The case depth is also dependant on the overall axle diameter. The splines are also forged into the axle for greater strength than cut splines. Check out where I used to work, www.aam.com.

Case hardening is a term used for parts, not axles. Gears are case hardened, only .060 to .100 deep. The strongest racing axles are thur hardened, take it up strange they have be doing this longer than anyone. Heat induction is good for 35% depth of the shaft. steve differential eng. inc.

 

Ever thought of using wood for axles? That would be easy to make...

I would suggest using an exotic such as Lignam Vitai, it machines quite well and is self lubricating.

 

Mark Williams uses 4340 and it is 48-50 Rc.

 

hey donovan, are you Mike Palmer?

 

No I am just Donovan, but my brother worked for Mark Williams for 5 years machining the 9" third members.

 

I was unaware that race axles were thru hardened. Learn somethin new every day. When I worked at AAM they designed for cost (obviously) I am sure.

Rolled splines will be stronger due to material flow in the formed area, unlike cut ones which, like some already said, will have stress risers in the peaks and lands. What the % is, is anyone's guess. Could be similar to rolled or cut threads on bolts.