Get a complete jy harness with tb, ecm 1227747 and all the sensors. Go to binderplanet.com and read about fi swap. That is how I did mine. They have wiring diagrams and every question you need answered is there.

 

TBI does not have a spark map capable of optimizing the ZZ4's power range. Go with TPI, and use a chip from a Vette. Also, the TBI volumetric effeceincy tables would not proper fuel the ZZ4. You could do it with a custom chip if you could find someone to do it.

 

The TBI can run the ZZ4, but you will need a full custom chip. I recommend using the 16197427 or similar ecms as they are the better ones to use. You will also need a 4BBL tbi to properly feed that engine.

 

What did the 4bbl tbi's come on? I want to start putting together a parts list so I can start looking in the yards around here. What else can be resourced from a salvage yard?

 

x2 for the TPI.

 

A TBI is more than capable of running a ZZ4 with out going to a 4brl throttle body. Either way, TBI or TPI, you really need a chip custom tuned to your motor to get all the power that it is rated for.

 

Well, seeing as there is some debate over which system I am better off running, but there does seem to be an agreement that both will do the job, maybe those of yall with more FI knowledge can tell me the pros and cons of both setups. I've been a carb guy up till now, but I'm starting to see the limitations behind carbs. School me on TBI and TPI.

 

Read this http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=633094&highlight=tbi+tpi. To me the TBI is just a glorified carb. The TPI has individual injectors at each port. But I would have bought a 6.0L and been done!!!:flipoff2:

What bolt pattern is the intake on the heads? Is it the vortec style like the fast burn ones? If so you will want to run the vortec marine intake with MPFI or the Ramjet intake. But non of those are cheap!!!

 

The heads are vortec style. I'm starting to think that might make a difference on which system I can run. Looks like the TBI will only work pre vortec. Is this right?

 

No, that's not correct. :flipoff2: Vortec/Fastburn heads use a different intake angle. You can make earlier intakes (TBI or TPI) work, but it's a pain in the ass. To get TPI on those heads you're going to need to weld the runners to make them taller and then carve them out to get the airflow. TBI is a much easier affair. You can buy a Vortec style carb intake (I'm assuming you already have this) and get a cheap adapter plate. You can find the factory adapter plate off an 87-89 TBI 454 which used a quadrajet intake. Or you can buy a GM Performance Parts TBI intake which is a really nice piece, but runs about $350.

A 454 throttle body flows 600-700 cfm stock depending on who you talk to and can be made to flow more. The injectors are 80 lbs units at stock fuel pressure and capable of much more with just a small increase in fuel pressure which is very much so capable of supporting a ZZ4. You see where I'm going with this?

 

Okay, so I'm currently set up with an Edelbrock Performer intake and an Edelbrock carb. If I'm reading this correctly, instead of getting an intake and throttle body, I need to get an adapter and throttle body. The throttle body needs to be from a 454. Is all this correct? I don't mean for yall to have to spell this out like I'm a child, but to many time I have thought I understood only to find out I didn't. As I said, this stuff is foreign to me, so don't be afraid to assume I know nothing at all.

 

Yes, that will work provided your intake is set up for a spreadbore carb. You will, of course, need a custom tune.

 

Spreadbore like a Quadrajet I assume? What if it's not. I'm finding some listings for a Holley 4bbl to TBI adapter, would that work? Where could I look into a custom tune?

 

Yes, that adapter should work. Many people will burn you a custom tune, but you're going to end up messing around an awful lot. There are just factors they can't take into account over the phone. Your best bet would be to pony up the money for the equipment yourself. It's going to take some patience, but I'd be DAMN surprised if you couldn't find a tune for a nearly identical engine out there as a basis. On the plus side you will be able to burn chips for friends when all is said and done and probably recoup some costs.

 

Patience I have, but if I had friends that were even considering an FI swap, I wouldn't be on here sounding like an idiot. Is it going to be possible to do this swap in the $300-$400 range like I had planned, or should I put this on the back burner for a bit? Any Texas boys done a similar swap that wouldn't mind a new friend?

 

While it is true that both will work. I disagree with the Experience on TBI being easier. By the time you get the 454 stuff and all, you can do TPI and have a better system. You'll need the Scoggins Dickey intake for TPI with Vortec heads which costs about $400.
I do agree with him on tuning it yourself. You can see my website's links page for everything you'd need to tune either TBI, or TPI. I'll even send you a base file to start with. What really needs to happen is to smooth out the fuel maps, and IMHO the best program for datalogging is Datamaster. It will give you an average BLM count in order to adjust the VE tables. While ecm's are capable of a learn function when the have to switch from rich to lean it creates a hesitation. The smoothing of the VE tables sloves this problem. Any vendor who says the can provide you with a single chip first time is full of BS.
My question to you is this. Do you have a ZZ4 with Fastburn heads, or with the old Corvette 113's?

 

Having no experience with Datamaster are you saying it will give you an overall long term fuel trim or are you saying it will give you each specific BLM? I can see the advantage of seeing an overall BLM of say 132, but are you saying then that you're going to just increase each cell 4? The only reason I ask is because I have seen specific cells that are WAY out of whack while the others are close. I'd hate to change the close ones on account of one outlier. I might have to play around with that program...

 

you're right that some aere close while others aren't. We shoot for 128, so let's use an example. In TunerCat, I'll have 800 rpm, at 60 KPA showing 60.6 VE. When I do a datalog with Datamaster it will average all the blm's for that cell let's say to 118. So we would take 118 / 128 = 0.921875 X 60.6 = 55.87 for a new VE for that table. You work each cell that is off. I have my personal rig with 126 to 128. I like to stay on the rich side, and this will change slightly with the season.

 

I'm about 95% sure they are the old Corvette 113's, but it's about an hour and a half south of here so I can't go out and check. Are there any major id differences that might come to memory? I'm assuming this makes a diffence on which FI system would be easier for me. It has the bolt through valve covers like the post '98 vortec heads if that helps.

 

Bolt through valve covers started in 87. Corvette 113's will use a stock gen 1 type intake, or a stock TPI, or TBI style from any OBD1.

 

I'm doing a tbi/vortec/L05 mild 350 build (340hp ish). You can absouletly build a tbi with stock injectors capable of running a zz4. You will need a to either learn to tune and get tuning equipment, have a chip burned, or get a EBL ecm like the one I got from dynamicefi.com. The EBL does a lot of the tuning for you (at least get the VE tables very close especially through the use of a wideband 02 and controller) and allows you to tune sensors that you dont want through the use of tunerpro. My sig has some of my motor build in it too. You'll also need a bigger bore throttle body (turbocity or xtemefi has 46mm tb) that should support up to 350 hp with stock injectors and bump your fuel pressure to the neighborhood of 40psi. You can bump up that number if you upgrade to a 454 tb and bigger injectors. Tons of good info over on thirdgen.org for this type of setup.

 

I just ran across this. Assuming I have the Corvette 113's, will this setup work for me? Any other thoughts on this setup?

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/pts/1330446991.html

 

The one you're looking at is from a Camaro, and I can tell because of the fuel rails. A Camaro intake is best, and a 14081005 manifold is better than a 1987 and newer, because the two center bolts on each side are drilled at 90 degrees Vs 70. You have 90 degree heads. You can hog them out, and it has been done. I'd prefer something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TPI-...tem3ef7e42980QQitemZ270446897536QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
This is a know 350 setup, and you won't have to worry injectors, and regulator pressure. I pieced mine together. I used the early Camaro base with Vette fuel rails, and an early 85 thru 88 plenum and runners. The Vette base from 87 on has a goofy EGR supply that gets in the way from tightening the distributor.