[DMANbluesfreak]

Just use an auto trans column shifter for the doubler and extend the stock link to shift the 205 :flipoff2:

But I have an auto trans and I want twin stick on the 205... :flipoff2:

 

[arse_sidewards]

But I have an auto trans and I want twin stick on the 205... :flipoff2:

I skimmed the first few pages. I thought you had a ZF :laughing:

 

[DMANbluesfreak]

I skimmed the first few pages. I thought you had a ZF :laughing:

OP does, maybe you have us confused.

I definitely contributed to the thread hijacking... sorry Dan! :homer:

 

[Dan90FSB]

Day 4 Saturday June 24th

Day Three of Ultimate Adventure 2017

We wake early, again knowing we have many miles of dirt roads to cover. This picture shows many awesome things. First and foremost, bacon. Nuff said, but I'll continue anyway. Second, Cooper from DPP cool ass wok, stove, grill, thingy. Third, Stephen Watson of ORD doing his famous move of, cruise the campground bumming a little food off of everyone. I called him out on it on one night and he was more than happy to cop to it. Despite being a chronic food sampler, Watson is a super cool dude.

We head down hill, losing elevation, and the partial heat relief that came with it. Again all dirt roads is the story of the day.

We encounter a few decent 4x4 obstacles along the way. Pines give way to low shrubs and then cactus as we descended. It’s a repeat of the prior day but in reverse. By this point the caked on dirt on the vehicles was nothing short of impressive, Dirt Head Dave’s Amigo seen here

The vastness of this area is amazing, when you get up on a high range you can see the rolling mountains just going on forever. Also the number of dirt roads in AZ is staggering. It’s almost hard to comprehend why so many of them even exist in the first place, but its great they do. I’d definitely own a Raptor if I live here! And just when you think you really think you’ve escaped civilization, you come across a couple houses in the seemingly middle of nowhere. OK, it is the middle of nowhere, but I’d guess that’s exactly what these folks are after.

We stop for lunch at an old mine shaft which has a musty, but very cool breeze blowing out of it, which inevitably caused much of the group to huddle around, looking for some relief from the ~110 degree outside air.

Back on the road

 

[Dan90FSB]

We press on covering more dirt roads and finally come down the hill through a decent sized community living only via dirt roads. It looks a bit like a rural city would; scattered houses, the occasional store, a dilapidated building, old iron rusting in people’s yards, except there’s zero pavement. I’ve spent some time in the back country in CA and haven’t seen anything quite like this.

Somewhere during the day the Skyjacker JK has a trans cooler issue and some leaky fuel lines and takes a shortcut to pavement to go seek some repairs. We briefly hit pavement to fuel up at a gas station positioned right by the freeway. I think just about everyone got a cold drink and ice cream from the store inside. There’s a car wash across the street and a few guys pop a couple quarters to blast 100+ miles of dirt road grime off their rigs. I decide its futile hearing there is much more dirt to come.

Apparently late in the day the heat and dirt wear on us such that we don't take pictures so its all words from here on out...

Its mid-afternoon and we are to be staying in a hotel in Payson, AZ this night, a short 1.5 hours away on pavement. It’s hot and we’ve already covered some serious dirt miles so the thought of a little jaunt on the freeway is appealing. But this is not our fate. We head for the ominously named “Bloody Basin Rd” and quickly realize its back to dirt. The first 20 or so miles is very well maintained and speeds of 50+ are easy. But not legal, so of course we didn’t do that. Had we done that though the driving here would have been unanimously regarded as really friggin fun. Again, I don’t know why everyone in this area doesn’t own a Raptor or something like it… Eventually the road turns into less maintained gravel and rock and the going is slow. We grind on for hours on river bed like roads, the kind that are annoying enough to slow you down but not hard wheeling. Nick, the passenger in H3 wants to check out the inside of my truck so we swap passengers for an hour or so. We finally hit pavement again around 7:30 and air up for the hour drive to the hotel on pavement. We’re losing daylight and everyone is anxious to get to the hotel.

At this point I realize my passenger hub won’t unlock so I simply remove it for the drive back to the hotel, throw some duct tape over the wheel hub to keep any large debris out of the bearings, and figure we can diagnose later. Cronie Chris Durham orders tacos from the Mexican restaurant across the street so when we arrive at the hotel at about 9:30 we’re greeted by tacos! We check in to our rooms, unload some gear and some kids staying at the hotel are mesmerized by the trucks, eventually asking, “is that a monster truck or a Jeep?”, to which I replied, “neither”. Sensing their dissatisfaction with that answer I correct myself replying, “monster truck”. They then asked which was the fastest, ignoring the fact that a V6 Camry could smoke most of us in a zero to 60, I decided I would say the next one to come around the corner was, in fact, the fastest. Not more than 5 seconds later returning reader Wayne Lambert comes ‘round the corner in his big block Chevy, which sounds great! So there you have it, Wayne is the fastest. Congrats, buddy!

After unloading a full trash bag of empty water and Gatorade bottles (sorry planet, when it’s this hot it’s hard to cool large receptacles of water!), we head out to the local Wal-Mart since the next 2 nights are trail camping so we need food, water, and ice. You ever seen that website People of Wal-Mart? Well it occurs to us that we are now those people! Filthy dirty from 150+ miles of dirt roads and covered in dried up sweat, we cruise the aisles of The Wal-Mart like old pros. By the time we’re done there we realize we haven’t really eaten dinner and while the Durham sponsored tacos were nice, we need more. The only thing open in town is McDonalds and at that it’s only the drive through. I have to shut off the motor to hear the intercom and after staring at a surprisingly foreign menu we try their new gourmet bacon burgers. Apparently McDonalds is really making an attempt to spruce up the menu. Add a couple beers at the hotel, a little time on the computer writing this, and it’s off to bed.

 

[Dan90FSB]

I skimmed the first few pages. I thought you had a ZF :laughing:

OP does, maybe you have us confused.

I definitely contributed to the thread hijacking... sorry Dan! :homer:

I've got a ZF5 in the Bronco. Single best mod I ever did. Love that thing so much.

And no worries, I was enjoying your sidebar convo's, and Kage has some great tech on his site!

Posted the next day of activity. Trying to keep this thing alive while ya'll are paying attention.

Plus I still have a Rubicon story to tell from back in August! Figured I had to finish this first!

 

[Baron85]

You are a great story teller. Sounds like such a great adventure!!!

 

[bobbywalter]

dirt roads like that are nice for cruising with 42's...


for the most part the last 8-10 years i run the oz military type tires on the road and general use. my truck has been 44 in tire capable since 07.


watching the videos and reading the stories and what seems to hit and miss tire wise with the ultimate adventure i would think 37 is a good median for a jeep or midsize.


are you happy with choice overall with your rig in regards to tire?

 

[arse_sidewards]

I'm gonna have to watch the videos when I'm not at work. It sure as hell sounds fun.


Just to keep side tracking things even more... :flipoff2:

What's your are people's opinions of a 203 in front of a newer, beefier aluminum case?

Something like a 203-271 would have plenty of gear options and not weigh a ****ton with the trade-off of being significantly longer than a 205 and not twin stick capable.

The 271 rarely has problems despite the best efforts of turned up diesels with plenty of traction. Without a lot of power and clutch dumping running the 203 in 2:1 shouldn't hurt the 271 (or any other modern 1-ton t-case).

 

[Kage.]

What's your are people's opinions of a 203 in front of a newer, beefier aluminum case?

Something like a 203-271 would have plenty of gear options and not weigh a ****ton with the trade-off of being significantly longer than a 205 and not twin stick capable.

In red. The size of the 271 can be a problem with packaging on a lot of builds (Length and width). And not being able to twin stick things is a pretty dang huge bummer.

$0.02

 

[Dan90FSB]

dirt roads like that are nice for cruising with 42's...


for the most part the last 8-10 years i run the oz military type tires on the road and general use. my truck has been 44 in tire capable since 07.


watching the videos and reading the stories and what seems to hit and miss tire wise with the ultimate adventure i would think 37 is a good median for a jeep or midsize.


are you happy with choice overall with your rig in regards to tire?

Probably half the group or more had the 38" falkens. A few with the 37" Falken's and I think just one rig on 35's - the Shrink Ray that Tom Boyd drove. A few guys on non-Falken 40's - the ORD rig, and readers Wayne and Chris and Cooper in the DPP Ram on 42's.

I was happy enough with the 38" Falkens for the trip. They're great on the street and a little less tire was nice for all the dirt roading. When we were technical wheeling I wanted more tire. They are narrower than the IROK's I was running. I also drag the diffs a fair amount.

Most telling was the Rubicon which I ran recently. Back on my home turf if you will. I've ran the trail a bunch on my 39.5 IROK's so it was a fun comparison. The Falkens hook up well on the rocks but I think the IROK's are a little stickier overall, could just be because they're wider. They measure out to very similar heights, meaning I'd like a little more ground clearance with either tire. The 14B rear is a big diff to clear!

Long winded way of saying, I liked my IROK's, I like these Falken's, but I want a little more tire. I will probably buy tires in the next year or so. The question will be bias vs radial...

Do I trust modern radials to not get torn up under a 7,500 lb rig on the rocks? If so I'll go 40" Nitto or Toyo, from what I've seen they're the best radials out there. A big plus is better street manners, I've got a trailer but I enjoy driving the truck on the street. Down side is cost compared to similar size bias.

Or do I go with tried and true bias tire... Stronger off road, a little cheaper. Don't balance as well on the street though. 41" IROK is likely the tire choice in this case. I'd like to try a Pit Bull Rocker but they're sizes are silly, more specifically the width. They make diameter's I like but they're like 15.5" wide!

I'm gonna have to watch the videos when I'm not at work. It sure as hell sounds fun.


Just to keep side tracking things even more... :flipoff2:

What's your are people's opinions of a 203 in front of a newer, beefier aluminum case?

Something like a 203-271 would have plenty of gear options and not weigh a ****ton with the trade-off of being significantly longer than a 205 and not twin stick capable.

The 271 rarely has problems despite the best efforts of turned up diesels with plenty of traction. Without a lot of power and clutch dumping running the 203 in 2:1 shouldn't hurt the 271 (or any other modern 1-ton t-case).

Twin sticking is AMAZING off-road. I think putting money into a doubler set up without twin stick is half missing the point. I use independent front / rear all the time. On the trails, I drive mostly in RWD low range with the front hubs locked. When it gets technical pop the front and gear, and then go low-low with the 203 as need be. Just popping the front in neutral even with the hubs locked makes it much easier to steer, therefore reducing stress and heat on the steering system.

203-205's are dumb. Trust me I have one :flipoff2:

black box or whatever with a 2.6-2.7 range into a 205 is better, but still 205s are heavy and leak. When do they leak you ask? Always.

Best option, save money for an Atlas or similar and just do it right the first time. Bullet proof, light compact, syncro'd gears! I know they're pricey but there's something to be said for getting it right the first time and never touching it again.

 

[sterlingfire]

I'm gonna have to watch the videos when I'm not at work. It sure as hell sounds fun.


Just to keep side tracking things even more... :flipoff2:

What's your are people's opinions of a 203 in front of a newer, beefier aluminum case?

Something like a 203-271 would have plenty of gear options and not weigh a ****ton with the trade-off of being significantly longer than a 205 and not twin stick capable.

The 271 rarely has problems despite the best efforts of turned up diesels with plenty of traction. Without a lot of power and clutch dumping running the 203 in 2:1 shouldn't hurt the 271 (or any other modern 1-ton t-case).

In a full size, full body rig, not having twin sticks in tight trails will be a big trade off for more (maybe not better though) gearing options. I could've used independent front axle operation both times I've taken mine out into jeep type ohv park trails. Probably more if i add in the amount of times I've been in the deep woods looking to get around a tree where Austin Powers style 72 point turnarounds won't even work, but sliding the front over 2 feet would've changed the whole day. Won't the 271 planetary work in the eco box? I'm not sure on that one. Go 205 behind that, unless you can afford an atlas or hero.

 

[Kage.]

Twin sticking is AMAZING off-road. I think putting money into a doubler set up without twin stick is half missing the point. I use independent front / rear all the time. On the trails, I drive mostly in RWD low range with the front hubs locked. When it gets technical pop the front and gear, and then go low-low with the 203 as need be. Just popping the front in neutral even with the hubs locked makes it much easier to steer, therefore reducing stress and heat on the steering system.

203-205's are dumb. Trust me I have one :flipoff2:

black box or whatever with a 2.6-2.7 range into a 205 is better, but still 205s are heavy and leak. When do they leak you ask? Always.

Best option, save money for an Atlas or similar and just do it right the first time. Bullet proof, light compact, syncro'd gears! I know they're pricey but there's something to be said for getting it right the first time and never touching it again.

All of that in Red. It actually funny how many times I've found myself halfway through a very technical section wondering why I'm having such a rough time only to realize that I forgot to put power to the front end :homer:

And yes, while I really love my doubler setup, I would drop the coin on a 3 speed Atlas and just be done. However, when you do that, you lose the amazing rust proofing ability of the 205. Probably not an issue for your dryer climate guys :flipoff2:

Won't the 271 planetary work in the eco box? .

No. For the ford stuff, you turn down the input from a 271 to fit inside the 231/241 gear set (3 or 4 pinion). NWF sells these turned to size, or you can source your own and have it turned down locally. I don't recall how much they take off to make it work, but there was still alot of material left when I looked at mine.

 

[sterlingfire]

Probably half the group or more had the 38" falkens. A few with the 37" Falken's and I think just one rig on 35's - the Shrink Ray that Tom Boyd drove. A few guys on non-Falken 40's - the ORD rig, and readers Wayne and Chris and Cooper in the DPP Ram on 42's.

I was happy enough with the 38" Falkens for the trip. They're great on the street and a little less tire was nice for all the dirt roading. When we were technical wheeling I wanted more tire. They are narrower than the IROK's I was running. I also drag the diffs a fair amount.

Most telling was the Rubicon which I ran recently. Back on my home turf if you will. I've ran the trail a bunch on my 39.5 IROK's so it was a fun comparison. The Falkens hook up well on the rocks but I think the IROK's are a little stickier overall, could just be because they're wider. They measure out to very similar heights, meaning I'd like a little more ground clearance with either tire. The 14B rear is a big diff to clear!

Long winded way of saying, I liked my IROK's, I like these Falken's, but I want a little more tire. I will probably buy tires in the next year or so. The question will be bias vs radial...

Do I trust modern radials to not get torn up under a 7,500 lb rig on the rocks? If so I'll go 40" Nitto or Toyo, from what I've seen they're the best radials out there. A big plus is better street manners, I've got a trailer but I enjoy driving the truck on the street. Down side is cost compared to similar size bias.

Or do I go with tried and true bias tire... Stronger off road, a little cheaper. Don't balance as well on the street though. 41" IROK is likely the tire choice in this case. I'd like to try a Pit Bull Rocker but they're sizes are silly, more specifically the width. They make diameter's I like but they're like 15.5" wide!




Twin sticking is AMAZING off-road. I think putting money into a doubler set up without twin stick is half missing the point. I use independent front / rear all the time. On the trails, I drive mostly in RWD low range with the front hubs locked. When it gets technical pop the front and gear, and then go low-low with the 203 as need be. Just popping the front in neutral even with the hubs locked makes it much easier to steer, therefore reducing stress and heat on the steering system.

203-205's are dumb. Trust me I have one :flipoff2:

black box or whatever with a 2.6-2.7 range into a 205 is better, but still 205s are heavy and leak. When do they leak you ask? Always.

Best option, save money for an Atlas or similar and just do it right the first time. Bullet proof, light compact, syncro'd gears! I know they're pricey but there's something to be said for getting it right the first time and never touching it again.

Ever think of maxxis treps? I love mine, they crawl over obstacles that other tires have to spin over in my experience. I watched a set 40" treps crawl a wall climb that 39.5 iroks had to have momentum to get up multiple times. Watched them crawl over and drag bottom of a buggy over giant concrete blocks that both irks and pbrs had to bash over just to get to the drop off, and use gravity to slide down. Albeit those are only a couple experiences, but that was enough to make me happy that I'm running them. Going through normal trails is done with ease, while mtrs, tsls, and bfgs are getting worked to shit trying to get through. I may never go back, but I'm worried that road wear is going to be quick, they do however, run true down the road after a minute of warm up. For a bias that's normal though. My mad dogs never did get true, so these may be getting a bit a bias from me though lol.

As for the Atlas, I'm at least 2 maybe 3 years out on that one. So my next best bet is going eco box to ford 205 with 1410 yokes front and rear, twin sticked, and vss mod to get me my speedo and trans shifting in order. That coupled with my 2 pc super duty rear shaft, and single pc front sd shaft, I'm trying to take weak links out as i can. Plus i have a real nice 205 waiting at my buddy's for Friday so i can pick it up. Now i just gotta unload this god awful heavy ass 203...

 

[Dan90FSB]

Ever think of maxxis treps? I love mine, they crawl over obstacles that other tires have to spin over in my experience. I watched a set 40" treps crawl a wall climb that 39.5 iroks had to have momentum to get up multiple times. Watched them crawl over and drag bottom of a buggy over giant concrete blocks that both irks and pbrs had to bash over just to get to the drop off, and use gravity to slide down. Albeit those are only a couple experiences, but that was enough to make me happy that I'm running them. Going through normal trails is done with ease, while mtrs, tsls, and bfgs are getting worked to shit trying to get through. I may never go back, but I'm worried that road wear is going to be quick, they do however, run true down the road after a minute of warm up. For a bias that's normal though. My mad dogs never did get true, so these may be getting a bit a bias from me though lol.

As for the Atlas, I'm at least 2 maybe 3 years out on that one. So my next best bet is going eco box to ford 205 with 1410 yokes front and rear, twin sticked, and vss mod to get me my speedo and trans shifting in order. That coupled with my 2 pc super duty rear shaft, and single pc front sd shaft, I'm trying to take weak links out as i can. Plus i have a real nice 205 waiting at my buddy's for Friday so i can pick it up. Now i just gotta unload this god awful heavy ass 203...

Yes I've looked at the Maxxis tires. Also seen them off road a bit and they are impressive. Glad to hear your thoughts on road manners. Have you balanced them at all? My last 2 sets of tires, IROKs, and the current Falken's I've run unbalanced. the IROK's were tolerable up to about 60-65, the Falkens I've ran up to 75 and they were still pretty damn smooth for zero balancing.

As you said I'd be worried about crazy fast road wear on a $2K set of tires. Maybe thats just the nature of the game...

 

[josh03]

Awesome. I'm building a FSB as well and love reading your threads!

 

[sterlingfire]

Yes I've looked at the Maxxis tires. Also seen them off road a bit and they are impressive. Glad to hear your thoughts on road manners. Have you balanced them at all? My last 2 sets of tires, IROKs, and the current Falken's I've run unbalanced. the IROK's were tolerable up to about 60-65, the Falkens I've ran up to 75 and they were still pretty damn smooth for zero balancing.

As you said I'd be worried about crazy fast road wear on a $2K set of tires. Maybe thats just the nature of the game...

No balancing at all, but only had them up to 60 or so. Since my trans has no sprag, i haven't driven it all that far yet. I've also got mayhem metal works beadlocks, and assume that any vibration is going to come from those. I built them myself in my garage, with my very unscientific method of centering lol.

I think you're right about the nature of the beast, you either get decent wear characteristics with better road manners, or you get high wear with better offroad ability. Pick your poison. I myself am likely going to stay with offroad ability since i can trailer my pile to the woods or park, better than i can winch myself over, and struggle on obstacles.

 

[Dan90FSB]

No balancing at all, but only had them up to 60 or so. Since my trans has no sprag, i haven't driven it all that far yet. I've also got mayhem metal works beadlocks, and assume that any vibration is going to come from those. I built them myself in my garage, with my very unscientific method of centering lol.

I think you're right about the nature of the beast, you either get decent wear characteristics with better road manners, or you get high wear with better offroad ability. Pick your poison. I myself am likely going to stay with offroad ability since i can trailer my pile to the woods or park, better than i can winch myself over, and struggle on obstacles.

Take em up to at least 65 for me will yah :grinpimp:

I trailer too, but for some reason even after buying my trailer I've street driven a lot... 1300 miles for UA, 100 miles on a Rubicon trip recently, 500 miles back in February for a snow run... Maybe I missed the right way to do this trailer thing :homer:

I bet I'll normalize to like... 1,000 miles a year max. Seems the tires would go for at least 8-10k on the street? So that should be fine, right!?

 

[sterlingfire]

Take em up to at least 65 for me will yah :grinpimp:

I trailer too, but for some reason even after buying my trailer I've street driven a lot... 1300 miles for UA, 100 miles on a Rubicon trip recently, 500 miles back in February for a snow run... Maybe I missed the right way to do this trailer thing :homer:

I bet I'll normalize to like... 1,000 miles a year max. Seems the tires would go for at least 8-10k on the street? So that should be fine, right!?

I will for sure, probably this weekend. I have to air them since they are at about 10 psi right now. Still at trail pressure:homer:since labor day:laughing:

UA is a given that you're going to put on 1000+ miles. I do think you're doing the trailer thing wrong though:laughing: i think it's fair to say that 1k miles a year will work out. I'm thinking i should be able to get at least 10k out of these tires with proper rotations. I also have a fifth tire and matching rim /beadlock so i can rotate that one in too. That will help me out for sure.
i need to get a trailer still, but i think a trans is in order first, and my wifey has me on lock down right now since we're in between jobs with little income atmthat will only last a month or two until my next couple big jobs start. I picked up my 205 todayfeels tight, and shifts well. Can't wait to tear intro it and twin stick plus get my vss mod going. Still thinking i can get an eco box for Christmas/birthday present. Also found out today that my barn is a go. This time next month i should be working in a fully insulated, heated 40x70x14 metal building! Can't wait for that.

 

[DMANbluesfreak]

I will for sure, probably this weekend. I have to air them since they are at about 10 psi right now. Still at trail pressure:homer:since labor day:laughing:

UA is a given that you're going to put on 1000+ miles. I do think you're doing the trailer thing wrong though:laughing: i think it's fair to say that 1k miles a year will work out. I'm thinking i should be able to get at least 10k out of these tires with proper rotations. I also have a fifth tire and matching rim /beadlock so i can rotate that one in too. That will help me out for sure.
i need to get a trailer still, but i think a trans is in order first, and my wifey has me on lock down right now since we're in between jobs with little income atmthat will only last a month or two until my next couple big jobs start. I picked up my 205 todayfeels tight, and shifts well. Can't wait to tear intro it and twin stick plus get my vss mod going. Still thinking i can get an eco box for Christmas/birthday present. Also found out today that my barn is a go. This time next month i should be working in a fully insulated, heated 40x70x14 metal building! Can't wait for that.

Document the shit out of the VSS mod for the 205 tailhousing, please :grinpimp: